From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Matthew Flaschen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: "MIT/GNU/Linux" Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:13:16 -0500 Message-ID: <45969E2C.6050409@gatech.edu> References: <87odpmlnze.fsf@kobe.laptop> <87ejqikz0d.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> <87ac15lh5f.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1234699950==" X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1167498960 32430 80.91.229.12 (30 Dec 2006 17:16:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:16:00 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 30 18:15:55 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1H0hoH-0002lx-Sh for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 18:15:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H0hoH-0005O9-9U for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:15:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1H0ho0-0005NE-Tl for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:15:36 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1H0hnz-0005Mp-Se for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:15:36 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1H0hnz-0005Mi-KA for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:15:35 -0500 Original-Received: from [130.207.165.169] (helo=deliverator7.gatech.edu) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1H0hnz-00072Q-8W for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:15:35 -0500 Original-Received: from deliverator7.gatech.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id A3B9519B7 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:15:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from matthew.flaschen@gatech.edu) Original-Received: from mailprx3.gatech.edu (mailprx3.prism.gatech.edu [130.207.171.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA (168/168 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.mail.gatech.edu", Issuer "RSA Data Security, Inc." (verified OK)) by deliverator7.gatech.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A58D1977 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:15:34 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from matthew.flaschen@gatech.edu) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.109] (c-71-224-192-74.hsd1.pa.comcast.net [71.224.192.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (sasl: method=PLAIN, username=mflaschen3@mailprx3.gatech.edu, sender=n/a) by mailprx3.gatech.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BA9213D for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:15:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from matthew.flaschen@gatech.edu) User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (X11/20061115) Original-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <87ac15lh5f.fsf@lion.rapttech.com.au> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.1.2 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:40035 Archived-At: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --===============1234699950== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig63DDE81A1C104D31D4464F3D" This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig63DDE81A1C104D31D4464F3D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim X wrote: > So then, should that be Red Hat Enterprise GNU Linux? Yes, that would be more accurate (and fair). > Also, when Larry initially announced that Oracle would do their own > distribution, while he indicated it would likely be based on RH > Enterprise, he was not prepared to commit to that. I was not aware he > (or Oracle) had yet made such a commitment. It is my understanding from reviews (like http://ultramookie.com/wayback/2006/10/26/uncompatible-linux/) that it is based on CentOS, which is in turn recompiled RHEL. >=20 > Obviously, I wasn't clear enough. The point I wanted clarification on > is whether GNU Linux refers to Linux distributions which comprise of > only free software or whether it refers to all distributions which use > both the Linux kernel and GNU utilities and other free software > regardless of what other non-free software the distribution contains. Correct, any distribution that is based on both GNU and the Linux kernel should be called GNU/Linux. RMS would prefer GNU/Linux distributions were completely free, but that is separate from the question of naming. > I think you missed the point. RMS does not like the use of the term > open source, but prefers free software.=20 I'm well aware of that. The problem is that open source does not necessarily mean free (as in liberty) as you can have > software in which the sources are open, but the licensing is > restrictive and non-free. I personally agree with this distinction > unless I have misunderstood his arguement (which is possible and why I > mentioned it.). This is mostly a misconception. The reason that Stallman doesn't like the open source movement is that it is based solely on practical expediency, while free software is about morality. I agree with him here, and prefer "free software". However, in practice, almost all open source (as defined by the Open Source Initiative) licenses are also free. The Open Source Definition (http://opensource.org/docs/definition.php) has detailed requirements, including free redistribution (modified or unmodified) for free or for a fee, and access to source. > You might believe that this is all self evident, but I have been using > systems based on the Linux kernel since the first release of Slackware > and the terminology and how it is applied has not been a static thing. > The move away from the general term "Linux" to GNU Linux, while > positive in reducing confusion between the OS and kernel references, > was not emphasised initially as much as it seems to be now. Yes, the FSF says (http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#always) "It took a few years for us to realize what a problem this was and ask people to correct the practice. By that time, the confusion had a big head start." > Open source was considered as synonymous with "free software" until Eri= c > Raymond and the OSI blurred things If I understand right, "open source" was not much used at all until the OSI (and their founders) popularized it. and an incresing number of > companies attempted to jump on the band wagon by releasing their > sources, but maintaining restrictive licenses etc. Again, almost every OSI-approved license is also free (as defined by the FSF). These restrictive licenses (e.g Microsoft Shared Source) aren't OSI-approved open source either. IIRC, even the > Linux kernel was not initially released under the GPL.=20 No, it was originally under a non-commercial only license, which wouldn't be OSI-approved open source OR Free. > it should not be any surprise that some find it unclear exactly when GN= U > Linux is appropriate. Again, all popular "Linux distributions" are actually GNU/Linux. You may want to reply off-list. Matthew Flaschen --------------enig63DDE81A1C104D31D4464F3D Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFlp4zQ5LSyju97VkRAi4bAJ9EC1I54enR6d65S1ZmDCNXVILQYQCeOZJK iFEQZWkYyZeG0YC0TDNjfc8= =SSPk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig63DDE81A1C104D31D4464F3D-- --===============1234699950== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ help-gnu-emacs mailing list help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-gnu-emacs --===============1234699950==--