From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: martin rudalics Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [rudalics@gmx.at: Re: [simon.marshall@misys.com: mouse-autoselect-window needs a de lay]] Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2006 11:16:44 +0200 Message-ID: <44FBEEFC.3040205@gmx.at> References: <854pvpym4i.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1157362274 7122 80.91.229.2 (4 Sep 2006 09:31:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2006 09:31:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 04 11:31:14 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GKAnQ-0005r1-6o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 11:31:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GKAnP-0004Rd-JJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 05:31:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GKAnA-0004O9-Gd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 05:30:56 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GKAn8-0004M2-76 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 05:30:55 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GKAn8-0004Lq-12 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 05:30:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [213.165.64.20] (helo=mail.gmx.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GKAxb-0001h2-Vr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 04 Sep 2006 05:41:44 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 04 Sep 2006 09:30:51 -0000 Original-Received: from N896P008.adsl.highway.telekom.at (EHLO [62.47.55.232]) [62.47.55.232] by mail.gmx.net (mp019) with SMTP; 04 Sep 2006 11:30:51 +0200 X-Authenticated: #14592706 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, de, en-us, en Original-To: David Kastrup In-Reply-To: <854pvpym4i.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:59306 Archived-At: > I think a delay is the wrong thing to do here since it makes stuff > unpredictable. Delays are the standard approach window managers adopted for focus follows mouse and window auto-raising. > The right fix, in my opinion, would be lazy focus > change: only when a keyboard or mouse event occurs in the new window, > is the focus changed. That has the disadvantage that the user may be > surprised by the change since the old window appears to have focus > before typing a key. That could be added. But it would violate the principle of least surprise. In my experience, the `mode-line-inactive' face and the `cursor-in-non-selected-windows' option handle feedback pretty well. > In order to mitigate the surprise, it might be reasonable to visibly > unfocus the old window (by the different highlighting of the mode line > and the different cursor type), but not refocus a different window > before an event occurs. That would be disconcerting, IMHO. > A more radical approach would be to move toolbar and menubar just > above the currently selected window. This would also require less > mouse movement, but would likely earn us an award for the most weird > user interface look ever. I recall someone proposing the use of popup menus instead. There's also the possibility to access the menubar via F10 or the ALT key. However, clients of `mouse-autoselect-window' are probably inclined to access the menubar with the mouse too. > I don't think it is reasonable to expect to sort this out before the > release. I think that there are several viable possibilities, and > we'd need the feedback of testers trying each of those out for several > weeks before it would be viable to decide on a sensible strategy. Simon and me have been testing this intensively for an entire month. Emacs developers apparently either don't use `mouse-autoselect-window' or don't use the menubar. Otherwise they would have complained earlier. Hence, for testing this any further we need a broader audience. > I don't think that the delay stuff is a good strategy: it brakes and > confuses the user when he indeed wants to change focus, and it causes > hectic when he doesn't. That's what I thought before I started implementing this. Currently, I use a value of -0.5, that is, wait for about a second after I started moving the mouse and select the other window iff the mouse doesn't move any more. So far I didn't notice any confusion with these settings.