From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lennart Borgman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: cua-mode and the tutorial Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:30:50 +0200 Message-ID: <44EB151A.2000102@student.lu.se> References: <44C8F069.1070002@student.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1156257125 29146 80.91.229.2 (22 Aug 2006 14:32:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:32:05 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 22 16:31:59 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GFXI0-0000k9-IX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:31:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GFXHz-00054D-Sy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:31:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GFXHQ-0004r3-Ez for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:31:00 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GFXHO-0004pT-Pq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:31:00 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GFXHO-0004pC-Jl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:30:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [81.228.8.83] (helo=pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GFXP1-0003ZJ-91 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 10:38:51 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.123.121] (83.249.218.244) by pne-smtpout1-sn2.hy.skanova.net (7.2.075) id 44E9C4630004F92F; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:30:52 +0200 User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Windows/20060719) Original-To: "Kim F. Storm" In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:58716 Archived-At: Kim F. Storm wrote: > The first instruction is to type C-v ... and it doesn't work > as described! > Do you mean that it does not work when cua-mode is enabled? Well, it is a problem. One solution would be to remove CUA mode from the tutorial buffer as you suggests. However I feel uncomfortable with that solution. It puts a burden on the user, "please learn this now, but later on you are going to use that". A possible solution is perhaps to tell replace C-v in the tutorial with the actual key to use. However that requires rewriting the text since there are also sentences like "do it by holding down the CONTROL key while typing v". (And there are many languages to rewrite.) Maybe that sentence could be removed? > > However, in general, your changes have a big problem. > The new informational (yellow) area may take so much > space on the frame that the instructions: > > >> Now type C-v (View next screen) to move to the next screen. > (go ahead, do it by holding down the CONTROL key while typing v). > From now on, you should do this again whenever you finish > reading the screen. > > is partially or even completely hidden, so the whole point of the > tutorial is lost (you have to know how to scroll before you can > learn how to scroll ...). > That is a good point. However most users will still be able to scroll with the arrow keys and the mouse. > > It would be much better if you just placed a few yellow lines > near the top with the following wording: > > Some of the standard key bindings described in this tutorial > have been modified, so Emacs may behave differently from > what you learn here. Click here for more details: [Details] > Having less information there is maybe a solution, yes. And using help buffer for details. However I do believe that the tutorial should try to tell the actual key bindings that the user will use. Is not that much easier for those that use CUA mode for example? > And then restore all key bindings (if possible) to their default > inside the tutorial. > This was my original thought, but now I think it is important to let users of CUA mode and Viper mode learn about basic key bindings differences. I think a lot of users will have CUA mode enabled. > > This way, you can also structure your code so there is: > - one function which simply checks if any keys are changed > - one function which setup the standard key bindings > - one function to show the details (in a *Help* buffer). > I have restructured the code in the version I sent in the last message. Sorry for the confusion. I welcome ideas. It is not very easy to make this working well. I can see we have slightly different opinions about what the tutorial should do, teach actual bindings or default bindings or maybe both. I tried the last.