From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Semi-unhelpful error message given when trying to (provide 'CUA-mode) Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 19:43:55 +0200 Message-ID: <4470A6DB.3020504@swipnet.se> References: <85fyj4bl8p.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <20060520.211854.71848142.wl@gnu.org> <85lkswa29b.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <44701B91.60606@swipnet.se> <85wtcfbt3n.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1148233495 27259 80.91.229.2 (21 May 2006 17:44:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 17:44:55 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 21 19:44:52 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fhryz-0000nI-SA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 19:44:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fhryz-0003Ir-DC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 13:44:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fhryl-0003IR-0E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 13:44:35 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fhryk-0003ID-5V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 13:44:34 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fhryk-0003IA-3H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 May 2006 13:44:34 -0400 Original-Received: from [81.228.9.183] (helo=av8-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1Fhs2G-0003zi-Qw; Sun, 21 May 2006 13:48:13 -0400 Original-Received: by av8-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id A76F937FD5; Sun, 21 May 2006 19:44:14 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net [81.228.9.102]) by av8-1-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AE3637EA8; Sun, 21 May 2006 19:44:14 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from coolsville.localdomain (81-235-205-204-no59.tbcn.telia.com [81.235.205.204]) by smtp3-2-sn3.vrr.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E82E37E44; Sun, 21 May 2006 19:44:14 +0200 (CEST) User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Macintosh/20060308) Original-To: David Kastrup In-Reply-To: <85wtcfbt3n.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:54959 Archived-At: David Kastrup skrev: > Jan Dj=E4rv writes: >=20 >> David Kastrup skrev: >>> Werner LEMBERG writes: >>> >>>>>> The menu bar is stupidly displayed, yes, but there's no way to >>>>>> activate its items. >>>>> F10 activates them. >>>> Hmm. Is there any reason why F10 under X Windows doesn't activate >>>> the visible toolbar so that I can move around with the cursor keys? >>>> Binding F10 to `tmm-menubar' is probably not that helpful... >>> Maybe to accessibility dependent people? On the other hand, walking >>> toolkit menus should be pretty standard for accessibility tools. >>> >>> In my opinion, it would make sense to offer this kind of drop-down >>> menu traversal both in text mode as well as in the toolkits. I don't >>> see that tmm-menubar has advantages that make it worth making it the >>> default. >>> >>> I'd vote to add this to todo.texi. This is one part of CUA where the >>> cost of accommodating it does not appear to have a negative impact >>> elsewhere within Emacs. >>> >> I have a patch for the X11 versions of Emacs that activates the >> menubar when F10 is pressed. I think that is very common, I have not >> seen any application that activates the toolbar on F10. >=20 > I am trying to figure out what you _intend_ to be saying. #1 is that > you mean just what you wrote, in which case I can't figure out why you > are bringing the toolbar into play. Because it was mentioned above: "Is there any reason why F10 under X Wind= ows=20 doesn't activate the visible toolbar ..." I don't know who wrote that. > #2 would be that you mean "I > _don't_ think that is very common, I have not seen any application > that activates the _menubar_ on F10". This may be, but we can't > easily use ALT here. But if people have a way to traverse the menus > by keyboard (in both X11 and tty), this goes a long way towards > accommodating accustomed keyboard/GUI interaction, even though the > entry is not completely what they are used to. And there might be the > possibility to get something closer to ALT-activation under some > circumstances, in a similar way that CUA-mode gets closer to utilizing > C-x and C-c. >=20 F10 activation of menus is actually Gnome/Gtk+ standard. In fact, there = is=20 code in Emacs to turn it off for Gtk+-menus, because it interacts badly w= ith=20 tmm. ALT activation is a bit trickier to do that just F10. Jan D.