From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: martin rudalics Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Confused by y-or-n-p Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2020 16:38:28 +0100 Message-ID: <43b24209-fa65-0e26-7cbd-f99175a7ffd8@gmx.at> References: <834kkcr1eo.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10093"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman To: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 24 16:39:13 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ksShs-0002Ws-6d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 16:39:12 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39822 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ksShr-0007ty-9N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 10:39:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56462) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ksShI-0007Tn-VM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 10:38:36 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.22]:53553) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ksShG-0002gt-UU; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 10:38:36 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1608824310; bh=VI+YnqfVwOh1SQXV+zK0rcOZLum9JeLCNeXBGprgRxs=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=USYD/XeDCru9qEmUlAX4BkiuGaH7UrifjMl5iH7iSG33Kc05Rt7MSQYn/i+amwIcb QGrjOrfPW6qKdvUkAql0ltCb9IGChh438IOVeYWHyXkcfkTzbVjdQ5AU6G26QypZNC LbBZOavQdbvFJnHWpvb2BZDzKRSIOLyrlaSMgV4c= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from [192.168.1.100] ([212.95.5.155]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx104 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MIdif-1knBDv0JnB-00EeR0; Thu, 24 Dec 2020 16:38:30 +0100 In-Reply-To: <834kkcr1eo.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:GvTpFDH/I7h1zdf0l0kNBHAnkM9PCIijc48xKaA2d3Q87V4PN8T qldZOKbDH5yH59aBI/5VmchnqQZtfyRvtT5HTcqVoSqbpK1ynsuENe1ZHnIEtAIXCxMSysB pvW/ll6/7noYO25k1zoseCJ9D5p7xhvaDMPHP9lX6xj5A2la469jHF6PUAEmnAxu5o/Cd+9 tLKbwhsa11IAcxwQem7Eg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:keuhLtBZ0pU=:n4gHDrgy3UOcVf5KJIrchU 9elqlb8pl13jyZygTW2yQShmnJHI8n88vqQKj2yO2yLYJUeZOABBReOJkIjWos5yZoKlKwunA m0a6fUeTTIMhH0cws2syPCdIw9pvR+8xkM2rhLrVO9pMDxcyxQKR6+vwu5hLvhVpf1P4oDq+R ex9U9TQpnBy5gsaEVnpyTHQjmBsAROF1nCrMddDpH7H2VV2SVj8O/stHghiksCsnsfVeDghvR AAhXkjHpF08DkV2ya3BNb801GiHPRiyiZVZ7O6ScErvYgJGWrZeRg9+RKUWbNb3FqGwBitHpa 3YWPodmsfnpZciu+Hv4C4ZqMUhKfE+vGynd0lie74Q3dYCpO/lwob6/pof2/0mj+r+gyVY1Xg VtDwuuK1qpNEWB+0zshSSJby8JOwKKsSiTtLQcGrOJGhI+ixISwHJ/n1CYYPB6TOeQxQw1AZe SLKQLgoeBg4IU/NJZxgDkkceI8LsKZOl0J/qixHtdE5Oq+Gkd0Y2RPLkeXR1xuzlWzK+roW5W FVYAr/F4Se6wwQ6zbzs+qDZoWtGsaS5U1PfhnaGaIpvfW/sB8cKt0Vplcygzi46OXI42ey5DN mzTkSIPAY+om0gzr9m0XSA4ZpbbaBDJKHEZ7zNOC5/U8Qv2nnbxKqNFFXsWVnp832J9Jggn8p S9aGONGLNTHByO8PuVzPEDym0xy+U0BXQKq76nrB0PzVwiHtzYxyX3X0x9lX7S71Jzc04as/R c7rHrvBMcCNxrmaxYH6PmMPpOxfO1vYay6uVRCitJUcHPIvxQnUQn9drTk+YqGZ+Cip9Xk3t Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.17.22; envelope-from=rudalics@gmx.at; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:261683 Archived-At: > The function y-or-n-p originally used to read only a small set of > character commands. In Emacs 27.1 we changed it to use > read-from-minibuffer, which means users now can easily switch out of > the minibuffer while the question they were asked is still not > answered. In the Elisp manual we say that =E2=80=98yes-or-no-p=E2=80=99 requires more work from the user than =E2= =80=98y-or-n-p=E2=80=99 and is appropriate for more crucial decisions. Now while 'yes-or-no-p' implements what is sometimes called a "modeless" or "non-modal" dialogue, our original 'y-or-n-p' implemented a "modal" dialogue where the user had no other choice but to answer the question immediately, possibly performing a few buffer scrolls in between. However, according to Wikipedia, modal dialogues are used "to command user awareness and to display emergency states" inherently contradicting what we say above. Maybe I'm the only one who sees a contradiction here. Still I'd suggest to allow users to separately choose for both, 'y-or-n-p' _and_ 'yes-or-no-p' dialogues, whether they want Emacs to handle them in a modal or non-modal way. And while we're there we could also try to relieve some of our .emacs files (mine included) of those (defalias 'yes-or-no-p 'y-or-n-p) by providing an option that accomplishes the necessary mapping. Thanks, martin