all messages for Emacs-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Lennart Borgman <lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, miles@gnu.org
Subject: Re: describe-bindings: ^L, bad order, naming
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:35:00 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <4378AEA4.3030901@student.lu.se> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87iruvn9c2.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>

Stefan Monnier wrote:

>>It is the sum of all newbie unfriendliness that counts.  At least for
>>the newbie.
>>    
>>
>
>If they want Notepad, they know where to find it,
>  
>
I would say that one of the challenges when making software is making 
complex functionality available in a way that is at the same time both 
simple and flexible. Making things behave similar at the surface is a 
tool for this. It makes the complexity less for the beginners.

Maybe I think this is more important since I am (still) using Emacs on 
w32 and that is a bit more complex than using it in a *nix style 
environment I believe. The learning curve is heavier and often you run 
into small things that stops you from what you want to do. (For example 
tools that does not accept w32 line style.) Those small things together 
takes an awful lot of time.

>PS: By the way, AFAIK, keyboard shortcuts are the things displayed in menus
>saying how you can use the keyboard to get the same result.  Key bindings
>are slightly different since they exist completely independently from menus.
>The two are related but not identical.
>  
>
Probably that is the history. But I believe that has changed because 
software UI has become more flexible. In some common applications (MS 
Office) you can decide what to have in the menus without changing what 
they call keyboard shortcuts.

Looking at the documentation for OpenOffice.org they seem to use 
"keyboard shortcuts" the same way. They also use the term "shortcut 
keys" for the same thing.

  reply	other threads:[~2005-11-14 15:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 93+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2005-11-10 20:29 describe-bindings: ^L, bad order, naming David Reitter
2005-11-10 21:27 ` Drew Adams
2005-11-10 21:38   ` Lennart Borgman
2005-11-11  1:03     ` Robert J. Chassell
2005-11-11  2:55       ` Miles Bader
2005-11-11  9:18         ` Kim F. Storm
2005-11-11  7:43       ` David Reitter
2005-11-11  9:05         ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-11 10:20           ` Henrik Enberg
2005-11-13 20:54           ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-13 22:08             ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-13 23:13               ` David Reitter
2005-11-14  0:10                 ` Miles Bader
2005-11-14  0:19                   ` Lennart Borgman
2005-11-14  4:28                     ` Stefan Monnier
2005-11-14 15:35                       ` Lennart Borgman [this message]
2005-11-15  5:43                         ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-19 11:25                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-15  3:58                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-14  4:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-14 17:48                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-14 18:18                       ` Help menu (was: Re: describe-bindings: ^L, bad order, naming) David Reitter
2005-11-15  4:07                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-15  4:11                           ` Help menu Juri Linkov
2005-11-15 17:45                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-15 18:07                         ` Help menu (was: Re: describe-bindings: ^L, bad order, naming) Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-15 18:19                           ` Drew Adams
2005-11-15 18:15                         ` Drew Adams
2005-11-16 22:04                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-16 23:29                             ` Drew Adams
2005-11-18 17:00                               ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-18 17:58                                 ` Drew Adams
2005-11-18 18:21                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-19 23:26                                     ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-19 23:44                                       ` Drew Adams
2005-11-19 23:26                                   ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-19 23:44                                     ` Drew Adams
2005-11-16 22:04                           ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-14 10:45                 ` describe-bindings: ^L, bad order, naming Jason Rumney
2005-11-11  8:54       ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-11  9:25       ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-11  8:51   ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-11 18:02     ` Drew Adams
2005-11-11 18:26       ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-11 20:47         ` Robert J. Chassell
2005-11-11  8:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-11  9:33   ` David Reitter
2005-11-11 10:02     ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-11 10:17       ` David Reitter
2005-11-11 18:02   ` Drew Adams
2005-11-11 19:01     ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-11 19:10       ` Drew Adams
2005-11-11 20:49         ` Luc Teirlinck
2005-11-11 21:16           ` David Reitter
2005-11-11 21:26             ` Luc Teirlinck
2005-11-11 22:32               ` David Reitter
2005-11-11 22:42             ` Miles Bader
2005-11-11 23:40               ` David Reitter
2005-11-11 21:25           ` Drew Adams
2005-11-12  6:32           ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-12 12:28             ` Robert J. Chassell
2005-11-12 12:58               ` David Reitter
2005-11-12 14:28             ` Luc Teirlinck
2005-11-12 19:48               ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-12 20:20                 ` Miles Bader
2005-11-12  6:25         ` Eli Zaretskii
2005-11-12 13:56           ` Drew Adams
2005-11-11 19:13       ` Lennart Borgman
2005-11-13 20:54   ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-11 19:35 ` Juri Linkov
2005-11-11 21:01   ` David Reitter
2005-11-12 21:19     ` Juri Linkov
2005-11-12 21:41       ` Drew Adams
2005-11-12 21:53         ` Miles Bader
2005-11-12 23:09           ` Drew Adams
2005-11-12 23:23             ` Chong Yidong
2005-11-12 23:35               ` Drew Adams
2005-11-14  4:54           ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-14  0:55         ` Juri Linkov
2005-11-13 20:54 ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-13 21:16   ` Drew Adams
2005-11-13 21:23     ` Lennart Borgman
2005-11-13 23:06     ` David Reitter
2005-11-15  5:43       ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-29 17:11     ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-29 18:54       ` Stefan Monnier
2005-12-30  4:56         ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-12-30  5:09           ` Stefan Monnier
2005-12-30 10:39           ` Andreas Schwab
2005-12-30 22:11             ` Richard M. Stallman
2005-11-14 11:59   ` David Reitter
2005-11-14 14:27     ` Drew Adams
2005-11-15  5:43     ` Richard M. Stallman

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=4378AEA4.3030901@student.lu.se \
    --to=lennart.borgman.073@student.lu.se \
    --cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=miles@gnu.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.