meta key problem C-M-\

meta key problem C-M-\

[Marcel Lautenbach]

Hello

hope you folks around this group may help me.
I ran into trouble trying this command:

C-M-\

emacs wont take CTL-ALT-AltGR-ß to get C-M-\

On German keyboards you have the ß. with shift you get ? and with ALT GR 
yout get \. But trying the above command with all three together (CLT, 
ALT and ALT GR) and the ß-key is interpreded als M-\ . But I have to use 
the ALT GR key to get \ .

any idea how to get around this problem?

note: Yes, I know, I could uye M-x indent-region, But I would rather 
like to use the short key combination.

Thankd in advance :-)

Marcel

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[David Hansen]

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:56:52 +0200 Marcel Lautenbach wrote:

> On German keyboards [...]
>
> any idea how to get around this problem?

Get an US Keyboard :)

David

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Marcel Lautenbach]

David Hansen wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:56:52 +0200 Marcel Lautenbach wrote:
> 
> 
>>On German keyboards [...]
>>
>>any idea how to get around this problem?
> 
> 
> Get an US Keyboard :)
> 
> David

Geeeeee. would you make me a present? :-)

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Lennart Borgman]

Marcel Lautenbach wrote:

> Hello
>
> hope you folks around this group may help me.
> I ran into trouble trying this command:
>
> C-M-\
>
> emacs wont take CTL-ALT-AltGR-ß to get C-M-\
>
> On German keyboards you have the ß. with shift you get ? and with ALT 
> GR yout get \. But trying the above command with all three together 
> (CLT, ALT and ALT GR) and the ß-key is interpreded als M-\ . But I 
> have to use the ALT GR key to get \ .
>
> any idea how to get around this problem?
>
> note: Yes, I know, I could uye M-x indent-region, But I would rather 
> like to use the short key combination.
>
> Thankd in advance :-)
>
> Marcel


Did you see this page?

    http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/AltGrKey

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Marcel Lautenbach]

Lennart Borgman wrote:
> Marcel Lautenbach wrote:
> 
>> Hello
>>
>> hope you folks around this group may help me.
>> I ran into trouble trying this command:
>>
>> C-M-\
>>
>> emacs wont take CTL-ALT-AltGR-ß to get C-M-\
>>
>> On German keyboards you have the ß. with shift you get ? and with ALT 
>> GR yout get \. But trying the above command with all three together 
>> (CLT, ALT and ALT GR) and the ß-key is interpreded als M-\ . But I 
>> have to use the ALT GR key to get \ .
>>
>> any idea how to get around this problem?
>>
>> note: Yes, I know, I could uye M-x indent-region, But I would rather 
>> like to use the short key combination.
>>
>> Thankd in advance :-)
>>
>> Marcel
> 
> 
> 
> Did you see this page?
> 
>    http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/AltGrKey
> 
> 
uhm..right. the allmighty wiki.......well, I hope you can forgive an 
emacs-newbie :-) thanks for the hint, now, it's gonna work though I need
to consult the doc every time I use the fingerbrreaking combination 
*ouch*...

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Ilya Zakharevich]

[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Marcel Lautenbach 
<marcel.lautenbach@t-online.de>], who wrote in article <djdfq5$ug2$04$1@news.t-online.com>:
> > Did you see this page?
> > 
> >    http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/AltGrKey

> uhm..right. the allmighty wiki.......well, I hope you can forgive an 
> emacs-newbie :-) thanks for the hint, now, it's gonna work though I need
> to consult the doc every time I use the fingerbrreaking combination 
> *ouch*...

A decade ago I wrote "a universal solver" for such problems:
modifier.el.  A (possibly severely crippled) version is included in
Emacs.  In short, you can replace control- by using some prefix key.
I usually bind C-F12 to be a replacement for control- prefix (likewise
for other modifiers).

Hope this helps,
Ilya

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Stefan Monnier]

>> uhm..right. the allmighty wiki.......well, I hope you can forgive an 
>> emacs-newbie :-) thanks for the hint, now, it's gonna work though I need
>> to consult the doc every time I use the fingerbrreaking combination 
>> *ouch*...

> A decade ago I wrote "a universal solver" for such problems:
> modifier.el.  A (possibly severely crippled) version is included in
> Emacs.  In short, you can replace control- by using some prefix key.
> I usually bind C-F12 to be a replacement for control- prefix (likewise
> for other modifiers).

I can't find your modifier.el but maybe it's been renamed/integrated and
has turned into the C-x @ thingy: C-x @ c is a prefix which adds a control
modifier to the next key.

So you can do C-x @ c M-\ in order to get to the C-M-\ binding.
Of course C-x @ c is not very convenient, so if you need to use it often,
you probably want to bind it to a shorter key sequence such as C-f12:

    (define-key function-key-map [C-f12] 'event-apply-control-modifier)


-- Stefan

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Ilya Zakharevich]

[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Stefan Monnier 
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>], who wrote in article <8764rmapgz.fsf-monnier+gnu.emacs.help@gnu.org>:
> > A decade ago I wrote "a universal solver" for such problems:
> > modifier.el.  A (possibly severely crippled) version is included in
> > Emacs.  In short, you can replace control- by using some prefix key.
> > I usually bind C-F12 to be a replacement for control- prefix (likewise
> > for other modifiers).

> I can't find your modifier.el

Actually, right now I repopulated ilyaz.org/software/emacs.  It should
be in "el" archive 2005-09.

> but maybe it's been renamed/integrated and
> has turned into the C-x @ thingy: C-x @ c is a prefix which adds a control
> modifier to the next key.

Right.  RMS rewrote it some way; since I did not use his version, I
did not know for a year or more that his version was severely broken
(e.g., it did not work with terminal keyboard sequences like F1).  It
was discussed here on g.e.h...  Maybe it works better now,
checking...  No, it is still borken with 21.2...

Hope this helps,
Ilya

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I can't find your modifier.el
> Actually, right now I repopulated ilyaz.org/software/emacs.  It should
> be in "el" archive 2005-09.

Yes, I found it there, but I was talking about finding it in Emacs.

> Right.  RMS rewrote it some way; since I did not use his version, I
> did not know for a year or more that his version was severely broken
> (e.g., it did not work with terminal keyboard sequences like F1).  It
> was discussed here on g.e.h...  Maybe it works better now,
> checking...  No, it is still borken with 21.2...

I haven't tried your code yet, but looking at it I'm wondering: how do you
type in H-C-x (assuming you don't have a Hyper modifier on your keyboard)?

IIUC after you hit C-x ESC h, the call to read-key-sequence will not let you
hit just C-x (because it's a prefix key).

OTOH Emacs's version doesn't allow you to cumulate the sticky modifiers, as
in C-x @ c C-x @ m \ which IIUC your version allows.


        Stefan

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Ilya Zakharevich]

[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Stefan Monnier 
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>], who wrote in article <87irvmgiot.fsf-monnier+gnu.emacs.help@gnu.org>:
> I haven't tried your code yet, but looking at it I'm wondering: how do you
> type in H-C-x (assuming you don't have a Hyper modifier on your keyboard)?

I would try something like
  hyperify controlify x

;-)

> IIUC after you hit C-x ESC h, the call to read-key-sequence will not let you
> hit just C-x (because it's a prefix key).

I think I missed this limitation.  It is not prohibits entering the
keys, of course...

Yours,
Ilya

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Joe Corneli]

   > I haven't tried your code yet, but looking at it I'm wondering: how do you
   > type in H-C-x (assuming you don't have a Hyper modifier on your keyboard)?

   I would try something like
     hyperify controlify x

My preferred method is to add a hyper modifier using Xmodmap then
start over.  Otherwise there's `event-apply-hyper-modifier'.

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Stefan Monnier]

>> I haven't tried your code yet, but looking at it I'm wondering: how do you
>> type in H-C-x (assuming you don't have a Hyper modifier on your keyboard)?

>    I would try something like
>      hyperify controlify x

> My preferred method is to add a hyper modifier using Xmodmap then
> start over.

xmodmap doesn't do you much good in a tty.

> Otherwise there's `event-apply-hyper-modifier'.

Which, as Ilya mentioned, doesn't allow you to construct H-f2 on a tty,
because C-x @ h will read the next untranslated event (i.e. the ESC char
which begins the escape sequence for the F2 key) so you'll get H-ESC rather
than H-f2.


        Stefan

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Ilya Zakharevich]

[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Stefan Monnier 
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>], who wrote in article <87y8492fvm.fsf-monnier+gnu.emacs.help@gnu.org>:
> > Otherwise there's `event-apply-hyper-modifier'.
> 
> Which, as Ilya mentioned, doesn't allow you to construct H-f2 on a tty,
> because C-x @ h will read the next untranslated event (i.e. the ESC char
> which begins the escape sequence for the F2 key) so you'll get H-ESC rather
> than H-f2.

I put an updated modifier.el on

  ilyaz.org/software/emacs

But I found one place where Emacs' one is better: mine applies control
to non-alpha characters wrongly: control-" becomes B or some such...

Yours,
Ilya

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Ilya Zakharevich]

[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
Stefan Monnier 
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>], who wrote in article <87irvmgiot.fsf-monnier+gnu.emacs.help@gnu.org>:

> I haven't tried your code yet, but looking at it I'm wondering: how do you
> type in H-C-x (assuming you don't have a Hyper modifier on your keyboard)?

Actually, I was updating my key bindings for less, mutt and trn
anyway, so I took a look into modifier.el again.  It was hopelessly
obsolete; I updated it to use "new" facilities of Emacs.

  ilyaz.org/software/emacs

In particular, to address your problem, the "docs" say:

;;; One hint: if you need to enter a character which is a prefix character,
;;; you can press C-g after it.  E.g., to get M-C-x one can do either
;;; C-x Esc m C-x C-g or C-x Esc c Esc x (or even C-x Esc c C-x Esc m x).

Thanks for pointing my attention to modifier.el again,
Ilya

Re: meta key problem C-M-\

[Hans-Christoph Wirth]

Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> 
>  So you can do C-x @ c M-\ in order to get to the C-M-\ binding.

Sounds like you could directly use M-x indent-region RET in this case :-)