From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#40088: 27.0.90; Symbol?s value as variable is void: debugger-outer-match-data Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2020 17:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <42d45bcf-bb82-4c31-be8b-e6acd400c92a@default> References: <87lfo0eddw.fsf@fastmail.fm> <87y2rz94m5.fsf@web.de> <8736a6edbr.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="117675"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Joost Kremers , 40088@debbugs.gnu.org To: Michael Heerdegen , Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 18 01:13:13 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jEMKf-000UUR-8y for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2020 01:13:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43472 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jEMKd-0003LB-Vp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 17 Mar 2020 20:13:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39973) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jEMKV-0003L5-ST for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Mar 2020 20:13:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jEMKU-0005f7-QM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Mar 2020 20:13:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:33711) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jEMKU-0005cq-L0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Mar 2020 20:13:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jEMKU-00008y-F6 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Mar 2020 20:13:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2020 00:13:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 40088 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 40088-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B40088.1584490379541 (code B ref 40088); Wed, 18 Mar 2020 00:13:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 40088) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Mar 2020 00:12:59 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39684 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jEMKR-00008f-4Y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Mar 2020 20:12:59 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:60328) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jEMKP-00008R-3A for 40088@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 17 Mar 2020 20:12:57 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 02I09nTS083787; Wed, 18 Mar 2020 00:12:51 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=qiW2VI2Gf1Wk0I09PSzRx0EHw5bg0syyf3BMNQ89JcI=; b=Rt92S3GExg1hSRpTRQu3jTIiFABNPj3Oh9cPWX1GgM4DBSHwoKdS3bMYPYzCml3frjxD 9qm4f07Gl6CKTyONH5MrBKVE6BAeuu+DZ1Yx2pjn9QfwFjjif/oolpEj49fHQgTMBXiH J4eOjgyBqww/MOwbdZ/XhShpbCEEdq8px9bDdMk13+s8th3JE6YP6m+K70RO3+rhNNuX IlfoIxqjCkndXI9v5bowTWa7C3Ce7eY7XPOLy7OmA2PoSO858p+cBa/MfkT9VwxTHioR feJZGfA3BnVJVayGhf61UzueRuxTgIJqgUnnQQXprL+bfJlUIh8muZsnVA5OF7aeBSPF dg== Original-Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2yrqwn7pb6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 Mar 2020 00:12:51 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 02I02a0P011762; Wed, 18 Mar 2020 00:12:51 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2ys8rfx9v7-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 18 Mar 2020 00:12:50 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 02I0Cnt1016731; Wed, 18 Mar 2020 00:12:49 GMT In-Reply-To: <8736a6edbr.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4966.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9563 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 suspectscore=18 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2003170095 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9563 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=18 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 clxscore=1011 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2003170095 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:177472 Archived-At: > > It doesn't look like this bug should be solved this way. Having > > "... is unbound" is better because it points at some function > > forgetting to let-bind this variable (someone should find out which > > and to which values). > > > > Whereas if it had an init value, that would mask such problems because > > nil is a somewhat valid value. >=20 > If there are lots of cases like this under the cited thousands then I > guess we need a way to declare a variable special without assigning an > init value. >=20 > I don't like the (defvar var) syntax we have now. It's different than > the (defvar var value) syntax in more than one way, and it's too > easily overseeable that it doesn't make a variable special. FWIW, I agree with this. I was going to say something similar a while back, but chickened out. ;-) Not sure what a good alternative would be, or whether it would be considered too late. Common Lisp handles it differently, but its approach can also be complicated, as Stefan knows.