From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Android port of Emacs Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2023 01:26:53 +0300 Message-ID: <429fc93d-f351-e772-40ce-249c7abc6321@gutov.dev> References: <83v8fnslfz.fsf@gnu.org> <83edmask4z.fsf@gnu.org> <5c02371a-3c42-de66-70b7-4ed0d88cc3fa@gutov.dev> <83leghpc8t.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2563"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.11.0 Cc: yandros@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 19 00:27:56 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qB0sE-0000Nc-Nw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 00:27:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qB0rP-0005FK-DY; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 18:27:03 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qB0rO-0005FC-Jm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 18:27:02 -0400 Original-Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.20]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qB0rM-0005tN-Ey; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 18:27:02 -0400 Original-Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89AD23200488; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 18:26:57 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 18 Jun 2023 18:26:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gutov.dev; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t= 1687127217; x=1687213617; bh=3azJtnffnVxLYVHMsMdon2mu+NSz5jwoF+c 6662pu8c=; b=nI7Sv7E78oGCIzWm8486pZZ2Eakhv4D2Lh3u3hIfB/67Q5ATSNc mPPlE9/lJWcxy7hxvvh/z4XCMP/u8xTSeZcx8WMktgfSdn4YR25UdOht71Dc8oPu DWsdria+YO0E3QsmariWon02otnBRlnCiusFHaXDKPtDLTiCbfZj+1jtRAPdxlIg U1o9/eA0x8bNRDAIJYryCrKYUiVDAfcchK5NQMJ9j3aW+wiE9nHd2Kj0wRD1YhV6 Tp0Ee6imUcVWVHxLKqv/h5Nn7HiJvNRXfHSybBmlSApOY3b5Yxj8Qfy8rLiwIL3s vlKEbrKNjvAhUQTvNTsawfV878GSxIbXqbw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; t= 1687127217; x=1687213617; bh=3azJtnffnVxLYVHMsMdon2mu+NSz5jwoF+c 6662pu8c=; b=bCa0Jlxm/Unnjb+Hf6k9ThNYSojaBvjYBfNmNsE9+JSuvJf1TBL 4gaXuFOmgKuED7jJGJrBiGg3xUwIaCkQi93s0ipLFhISlk8s4hO1AVKpYMpIbkE3 30IixbwAZQUw3g+H0sRYobNVrXsC+xjHw67xq2zd4e2LwHc8J2JBIDkmwM2aa3Ix bI0LXKu9l0maftrEZyK5+xCyZCPVdEjP9629Adq8er+gk6X17Z3rCSK8u9UeTAuZ 9pCzuAh20qtR3Eo5Z1dPtBgD7c+uu4qa7LoyPLBAg92zY7drBV38YTVOzBK1O4gk V6E6NWIbH5qLCtblFa/lAXDObG4aZnNcDKQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Received: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvhedrgeefuddguddtucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepkfffgggfuffvvehfhfgjtgfgsehtjeertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpeffmhhi thhrhicuifhuthhovhcuoegumhhithhrhiesghhuthhovhdruggvvheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhepiefgteevheevveffheeltdeukeeiieekueefgedugfefgefhudelgfefveel vdevnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepug hmihhtrhihsehguhhtohhvrdguvghv X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: i0e71465a:Fastmail Original-Received: by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 18:26:55 -0400 (EDT) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <83leghpc8t.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.20; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -28 X-Spam_score: -2.9 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.09, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:307016 Archived-At: On 18/06/2023 08:31, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 04:10:35 +0300 >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> >> We shouldn't be afraid to deprecate and remove unmaintained ports. And >> we shouldn't (like Po already said) delay releases over them. >> >> If we had a consensus on that > > This is easier said than done. In practice, we don't like to release > knowing that one of the platforms we care about is broken. In fact, I > don't think it ever happened, not even with NS (MSDOS is not a > platform we care about, so it is not relevant.) We might, of course, > release a broken port if we are unaware that it's broken, but that's > not the same thing. There might be a certain loss of face involved, but it really is better to have an Android port of at least some versions of Emacs than not have it at all, isn't it? And if it's broken, we could as well announce that the Android release is "not ready" and will probably arrive at some later time [when/if it's fixed]. FWIW, I think the important part in this discussion is you and Po arrive at some more or less amenable conclusion, and whether the port is developed externally or internally is secondary. It's fairly plausible that Android will become a desktop platform too not too far off in the future. Or desktop computing will migrate even more toward portable devices. We'll be more prepared either way. >> I guess the main concern that would remain is whether the Android >> port complicates the common code enough for it to be noticeable. > > I invite you to review the results of > > git diff ...origin/feature/android > > and make up your own mind about that. I took a brief look, but couldn't come to a particular conclusion. It's a large diff, and not all of it is "common" code. TBF the autotools/make additions look the scariest to me, but I'm not sure whether that's an objective opinion. As far as the number/volume of Java files go, I'd recommend not paying much attention. Java *is* a verbose language, and at any point in the future we'll almost certainly find someone familiar with it (I have 2 years with it under my belt myself, even if it was a decade ago).