From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Fix some tooltip related problems Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 10:50:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <41d40db5-15d8-4b2c-a058-fb6dabc8bfd3@default> References: <5A533FA4.4030507@gmx.at> <9384bae5-cbb9-4b4d-ac5c-1d01f01c8117@default> <5A53B633.5020706@gmx.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1515437417 3751 195.159.176.226 (8 Jan 2018 18:50:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 18:50:17 +0000 (UTC) To: martin rudalics , emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 08 19:50:13 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eYcUm-00007l-W1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 19:50:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51462 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eYcWm-000586-Jc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 13:52:08 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45419) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eYcVm-0004T6-BC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 13:51:07 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eYcVj-0003nC-8Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 13:51:06 -0500 Original-Received: from userp2130.oracle.com ([156.151.31.86]:50414) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eYcVi-0003mF-QS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Jan 2018 13:51:03 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2130.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2130.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w08InG4D134152; Mon, 8 Jan 2018 18:50:59 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=pwv6P1pKc7VkkzVyJJaNOQgMMvld3Nr0PRRHubDjQ7I=; b=ANKCXhPaLWPe8AF4rN5/oUNmrBsgzDkwxm+hh6Ga9xvCuXjPfghSbeBKH+D4ciD0g5Z6 OnrGsOXXVPGIr8R/6mvCgb20CW6+mcBH6QmQmjdrZxj2OrA0A7Oo2hC3NTrzEyvFm0eo v7IuolsXGgFXIcA8ZPiHXIExhS3OLHtDxMm++0i5QHSYF6f/yVk/3JqHIvJQFa6b+WoR 9INP2IbSrRMlc5KhlFFHMhs7KxnzXMYXY3T4PckG+ZLc7BBh+kg2simhOmyc/Je7oXU5 TCPOBB5iriSHrGNLl7J4vPVKWls27L2Ut2Og9keCgS2b2T7p+o4kf5f8nT14qz9WEwcd zQ== Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp2130.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2fcd850dcx-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 08 Jan 2018 18:50:59 +0000 Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w08Iov0f024249 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 8 Jan 2018 18:50:57 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w08IovGT032269; Mon, 8 Jan 2018 18:50:57 GMT In-Reply-To: <5A53B633.5020706@gmx.at> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4627.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8768 signatures=668652 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1801080266 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.86 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:221719 Archived-At: .. Thanks for those answers. > >> For modeline help-echoing have tooltips show applicable > >> actions only. > > > > What does that mean? What "inapplicable" stuff will > > users no longer be able to see in tooltips? >=20 > For example, with emacs -Q and the mouse over the right part of the > single modeline you won't see a tooltip because the corresponding > window is already selected, occupies the whole frame and can be > neither removed nor resized. I guess you mean this tooltip: mouse-1: Select (drag to resize) mouse-2: Make current window occupy the whole frame mouse-3: Remove current window from display As one user, in that context I'd rather still see those mouse actions shown in a tooltip, for info/learning purposes. It would be good to dim them, however. This is like showing `Edit' menu item `Cut' when the buffer is read-only: we still show the menu item even when it cannot be used in the current context. It's true that for some menu items we use :visible instead of :enable. For the example you gave, I think the :enable behavior is more appropriate: teach users that it exists and tell them it is currently unavailable. IMO, that's the right way to handle that particular "inapplicable" action: show it, so users can learn about those mouse actions even in that context - but make clear that, although generally available, they are not available currently. So as one user I'd vote against this change, unless I saw some good reasons for it or unless users will somehow be given the choice. What's the reason for this change? What are the criteria that determine when such "inapplicable" actions are not shown? (I'm guessing that the example you gave is not the only one.)