From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: how to turn off automatic curly-quoting? Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 12:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <41ca0ff6-3c02-4202-9dd4-bb3192a6c417@default> References: <36f6e67e-45d9-4eca-8302-ad9a06d138f1@default> <83fv41v6fh.fsf@gnu.org> <5681a732-5741-4f56-b3d7-cb1edb739d32@default> <55BEA291.70402@cs.ucla.edu> <83a8u8v1zk.fsf@gnu.org> <55BF9B8C.6010300@cs.ucla.edu> <7197418a-d51f-4d0e-a01c-188d27a0f21f@default> <55BFBA12.4070505@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1438630413 15986 80.91.229.3 (3 Aug 2015 19:33:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2015 19:33:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 03 21:33:21 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZMLU8-00036H-1b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Aug 2015 21:33:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60320 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZMLU7-0004xt-2m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Aug 2015 15:33:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60924) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZMLU3-0004xj-5L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Aug 2015 15:33:16 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZMLTz-0004kQ-NT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Aug 2015 15:33:15 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:50445) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZMLTz-0004jM-Gd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 03 Aug 2015 15:33:11 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t73JX3na017427 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 3 Aug 2015 19:33:03 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t73JX369001776 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Aug 2015 19:33:03 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0013.oracle.com (abhmp0013.oracle.com [141.146.116.19]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t73JX3ju031949; Mon, 3 Aug 2015 19:33:03 GMT In-Reply-To: <55BFBA12.4070505@cs.ucla.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:188365 Archived-At: > > Do you know of other occurrences of quoting ordinary text with `...' > > in Emacs? I doubt it >=20 > It's done all the time. Here are some examples: >=20 > "Add `See also ...' to WIDGET if there are any links...." > "... The `ISO year' corresponds approximately to the Gregorian year, but > weeks start on Monday and end on Sunday...." > "If nil, Comint will interpret `carriage control' characters in > output...." 1. All bugs, IMO, though I don't have the contexts. Without context it's hard to know just what is the fix in each case. If "ISO year" is meant to be a placeholder such as a parameter, for example, then the Elisp manual would instead use ISO-YEAR (no quotes and no spaces). I don't see `ISO year' in either the Emacs manual or the Elisp manual. And yes, it is more likely that doc/manual bugs are found in other manuals, especially when written by 3rd parties. Eli doesn't have the same time to devote to all other manuals as he does to the two main manuals, where he often identifies and fixes such bugs. And there are fewer user eyes on such manuals, so such problems get reported less often. 2. If you are quoting ordinary text then use whatever Emacs uses to quote ordinary text (not code, keys, URLs, and file names). So what does Emacs use to quote ordinary text? * It might be "..." (which it uses to introduce glossary terms), or it might not be. The use of "..." for anything other than code strings is also a bad idea, IMO. Unless we systematically put inline code strings within code quotes (e.g., =E2=80=98"a code string"=E2=80=99). * It could be curly double-quotes, but it doesn't seem to be so far. * It could be curly single-quotes, if Emacs adopted British style. It could be the case for American style too, but only for an embedded quote (of which there are probably none in the existing doc). Whatever it is, it might well apply to the examples you just gave. At first sight, at least, those just quote ordinary text, AFAICT. > Although I tend to agree with you that this is not good style, evidently > not everyone shares our tastes. In any event there's no harm translating > these to curved quotes, as is done in current Emacs master. There is definitely harm in doing so, since that's the convention you are adopting for code etc. That's the point. Inline code etc. is not just ordinary text-quoting. You've chosen an inappropriate mechanism for setting off code etc., one that is easily confusable with ordinary text quoting. A no-no, by any ordinary doc standards. But of course, Emacs can do whatever it likes - or apparently whatever you like.