From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: delete-selection-mode Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 19:46:04 -0700 Message-ID: <41FAEDE38E744F0B809E1FBCEF02C4EB@us.oracle.com> References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com><201003130001.o2D01FFQ003489@godzilla.ics.uci.edu><87vdd1yqe4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87eijjzrkd.fsf_-_@mail.jurta.org><20100317143519.GB4381@muc.de> <87k4t92hmb.fsf@home.jasonrumney.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268966943 20298 80.91.229.12 (19 Mar 2010 02:49:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:49:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, lennart.borgman@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, juri@jurta.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, 'Stefan Monnier' , acm@muc.de To: "'Jason Rumney'" , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 19 03:48:56 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsSGe-0001zy-9y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:48:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60080 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NsSGd-0004OU-P3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:48:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NsSEI-0002bU-3s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:46:30 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=48747 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NsSEG-0002aS-SW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:46:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsSEF-0000hi-Pq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:46:28 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet11.oracle.com ([148.87.113.123]:36606) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NsSE8-0000h3-2z; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:46:20 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rcsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o2J2kG5x019904 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:46:17 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o2J2kFjJ005667; Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:46:15 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt001.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 98926131268966767; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 19:46:07 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.179.75) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 19:46:06 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87k4t92hmb.fsf@home.jasonrumney.net> Thread-Index: AcrHCFYAmpjXn9UvTiaJ6VftCLEmkwABE0ig X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090202.4BA2E578.00FA:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122245 Archived-At: > > Is this true even when the region has been activated by > > keyboard commands? If so, perhaps it is a bug. Perhaps > > the feature should only apply when you make the region > > using the mouse. > > I think it should also apply when the region is made using the S-arrow > keys, as that is another common way of making a region which we have > provided for those same new users. > > Personally I think that the traditional Emacs way of setting > mark should have neither delete-selection nor transient-mark > by default. Please, don't even think about messing with d-s-mode or t-m-mode. Don't change the default behavior to d-s-mode, if you don't want to. But do not - please do NOT - change the behavior of d-s-mode (or t-m-mode). > The reason is that Emacs has two distinct uses for the mark - > as a mark, and as one end of the region. No, no, no. The mark is *ALWAYS* one of the region. By definition. Yes, the text within the region is not always used, for some uses of the mark - e.g. navigation. Yes, there are different uses of the region and the mark. And yes, for purely navigational uses (e.g. jumping to the mark or a previous mark position) you sometimes do not need or want the region to be active. > Transient-mark-mode and delete-selection-mode really > only apply when the mark is used as one end of the region, Which is always the case, by definition. > and get in the way when the intention is to use the mark as a mark. The region being active can get in the way when you don't want it to be active. ;-) Yes. And that is mainly when you are using the mark navigationally. Most generalizations of the kind "you don't need the region to be active when" are wrong _as generalizations_. When you select a sexp using `C-M-@', do you want the region to be active? It all depends. (But generally, yes, I do.)