From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Unbalanced change hooks (part 2) [Documentation fix still remaining] Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 16:11:16 -0700 Message-ID: <415d1cca-f32c-624e-a4be-9aadcf8a0f17@dancol.org> References: <83inv9hkjd.fsf@gnu.org> <83h9ashfgx.fsf@gnu.org> <831t1wharr.fsf@gnu.org> <20160810161821.GB3413@acm.fritz.box> <83wpjofttf.fsf@gnu.org> <20160810185735.GD3413@acm.fritz.box> <20160811112951.GA2154@acm.fritz.box> <7e1478b6-cf00-fcbf-8c24-43bdaa57e2b6@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1472426061 16887 195.159.176.226 (28 Aug 2016 23:14:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 23:14:21 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 To: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 29 01:14:17 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1be9HM-0003q9-3l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Aug 2016 01:14:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41178 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1be9HJ-0005vx-Lh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 19:14:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58443) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1be9Gg-0005vq-Ic for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 19:13:35 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1be9Gc-0003Uj-20 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 19:13:33 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([96.126.100.184]:51880) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1be9Gb-0003UA-P7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 19:13:29 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject; bh=y8W3bSjntb47fgwAxEyhhBDJaWAgYQ9iRbcIFLKS7fE=; b=mD9NbwoSjGaKCaNTqoelr/XeXxqxrmTXp/8bKnrtR9qkvQZ2PrwP3dgdGMoVDUS7DMOx5VumrEqgHnYLRnCgES1qHSyjHSIYR+mjY1ygY9X1ElmvIQ5COQ7s27PRHJKz4IpQf257/8e5dJpKu1IVBweNBLwRKSH1gF3rgRwG+HkF8zNDP7nsiECns0dkOo+Ogy40D7w6UIPY2j28BF0oJQoFsvqb6FAtLjJK0wfW5Z5ptGorALB1xVMCMwpWqhAT9jq7NL2aBGeVK7lYVkrKkTlZvFuQ2dJRGOywCpny8bm2Cyu4cqPlBt7gnzXXPw3hD8Nqv2FTUKNJAnfTrPx+pw==; Original-Received: from c-73-97-199-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net ([73.97.199.232] helo=[192.168.1.173]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1be9EW-000755-0W; Sun, 28 Aug 2016 16:11:20 -0700 In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 96.126.100.184 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:206849 Archived-At: On 08/28/2016 03:44 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>>> Besides, you haven't fixed the docstring, which still suggests that b-c-f is >>>> called before every change. (And a "change" must be anything that results in >>>> a-c-f being called.) >>> It doesn't just suggest it, it says so, and rightly so. >> So will insdel.c or the docstring change? > > I don't know what you're referring to or how that relates to the quoted text. Sorry --- let me try adding more context. According to the very long thread above, I think these are the things everyone agrees to be true: 1) b-c-f isn't currently balanced with a-c-f in the insdel.c implementation 2) b-c-f isn't currently guaranteed to be called at all before any given call to a-c-f (e.g., the C-x C-f case) 2) the documentation suggests that a-c-f and b-c-f are balanced 3) many people, Alan and me included, were under the impression that b-c-f and a-c-f were balanced and wrote code accordingly AIUI, Eli's position is that the current behavior should not change at all, because making changes at this level is too risky. The documentation should change to reflect #1 and #2. Your position is that #2 is a bug, but #1 is not, and the documentation needs to change. My position, and Alan's, is that #1 and #2 are both bugs and the current documentation is fine. The status quo is that the documentation misleads developers about what Emacs actually does. I don't think it's fair to suggest that both Alan and I both just misunderstood the documentation. So what do you propose doing? Upthread, I explained why I think that fixing both #1 and #2 is pretty low-risk.