Re: Japanese input in Linux environment (fcitx-mozc)

["ISHIKAWA,chiaki" <ishikawa@yk.rim.or.jp>]

XIM mode indicator bug in gtk v3 library is not in freedesktop website, 
but at
https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=731190
you can look up the patch for v2 from the link in the above URL.

That these bug reports are simply ignored shows how wide XIM is used all 
over the world :-)

TIA

On 2017/06/10 4:49, ISHIKAWA,chiaki wrote:
> On 2017/06/08 0:29, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2017 10:02:06 +0200
>>> From: Héctor Lahoz <hectorlahoz@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> So I think the right direction is to look at the X input method
>>> architecture. It seems there are some newer solutions like IBus or
>>> SCIM. I can't tell how or up to what extent Emacs uses any of these.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Input_Method
>>
>> Emacs uses XIM, has been doing that for a long time.
>>
>>
> 
> Surprise. I am a Japanese user of Emacs located in Japan.
> 
> I create my emacs binary with "--without-xim" all the time.
> 
> I use an emacs library that mimicks what XIM library would in terms of 
> talking to the conversion server,
> and offers its own frontend inside Emacs buffer for phonetical input -> 
> Japanese Kanji Kana combination characters.
> 
> In my case I use English keyboard, a version of Happy Hacking Keyboard 
> and I use romanized Japanese input and conversion to Kana Kanaji string 
> from thereof..
> 
> This emacs libary for mimicking XIM and user interface for inputting 
> Japanese characters is called TAMAGO (tamago is "egg" in Japanese).
> This should not be confused with another library for "git" support.
> 
> This input method *IS* antiquated, but like the original poster stated, 
> I got the habit of using this combination close to 30 years now and 
> can't switch easily.
> 
> Me --- English Keyboard
>           --- Emacs (this input method TAMAGO/egg   .el library)
>               <---> phonetical string to
>                     Kanji Kana string conversion server
>                       (FreeWnn jserver with locally enhanced dictionary)
> 
> 
> But how about entering Japanese for  OTHER X-based applications such as 
> Mozilla firefox, and thunderbird under linux?
> 
> I use an XIM based input front end called kinput2-wnn-v3.1, which is 
> again very antiquated, but it DOES use XIM library of X11 distribution.
> 
> Me  ---  English Keyboard
>               |
>             kinput2-wnn -v3 front end <---> FreeWnn jserver
>               |
>               +-- application such as firefox/thunderbird
> 
> The use of TAMAGO .el library and kinput2-wnn makes the keyboard 
> combination to enter Japanese input more or less similar across Emacs 
> and other applications.
> With TAMAGO we can define how romanized character input is done using 
> table-driven conversion, and it is the same with kinput2-wnn.
> 
> The operations of two input methods are close enough that, when the 
> operation differs from time to time, I got irritated. But usually such 
> difference is very small.
> 
> One difference is that the Japanese input using TAMAGO in Emacs happens 
> on the spot. I can choose on-the-spot or off-the-spot input using 
> kinput2-wnn. There used to be a few bugs related to on-the-spot input, 
> but I *think* they are gone, or I no longer care :-)
> So I use on-the-spot input all the time. This makes Japanese input 
> uniform across Emacs+Tamago and other applications under X11.
> The only hitch is that the mode indicator that shows which mode I am 
> using (Japanese and/or original ASCII input) is broken for 
> kinput2-wnn-v3.1 in the latest gtk library. It is shown as black rectangle.
> http://myh.no-ip.org/~m-ito/diary/?date=201307
> The above page refers to the library version .24, but the later library 
> also suffers from the same issue. I posted a patch but can't recall 
> where the patch is located in freedesktop bugzilla site.
> 
> Well, the Japanese input under Debian Linux using the
> distribution-based input method works rather well.
> But due to the old habit, I am using the above method by disabling 
> Debian's setup.
> 
> *HOWEVER*, obviously the input under OTHER OS, I mean, Window is very 
> different, and  I am pretty disgusted at Entering  many Japanese 
> characters under Windows. There does not seem to be an equivalent of 
> kinput2-wnn under Windows.
> 
> Often times, I create rough Japanese draft using Emacs under linux by 
> means of the above Japanese input method, and then only tidies up / 
> format the draft in MS Word under Windows if I am forced to work with MS 
> Word and other proprietary format.
> So basically, I run linux inside Oracle VirtualBox under host Windows 
> for the last several years now for enjyoing the best of the both worlds.
> 
> There is one Emacs-lisp problem with TAMAGO input library.
> It uses transparent / invisible property of characters (or region of 
> characters) when it handles user key input during conversion, and I 
> found it collide with the
> use of such attribute in emacs's org-mode. Very unlucky thing.
> 
> With XIM, a bug was found about 4 years ago, which had been dormant for 
> 15 years or so since XIM was proposed and implemented, and the bug made 
> it very difficult to use Japanese/Chinese/Korean input to 
> firefox/thunderbird, etc.when the bug surfaced when GTK library changed 
> its handling of event timestamp internally.
> XIM library returned bogus timestamp which had been ignored until then.
> But suddenly the bogus timestamp caused revised GTK library to misbehave.
> We could not pull down menus any more, for example.
> I am afraid when that happened, many users simply abandoned the XIM 
> frontend. The bug was fixed after a six months or so thanks to the help 
> of mozilla contiributor.
> But I am afraid that the damage had been done.
> 
> I have no idea how many diehard TAMAGO + Emacs, and kinput2-wnn users 
> are there under linux who need to use FreeWNN jserver or commercial 
> Omron WNN Jserver with rich Iwanami dictionary for conversion. (I bought 
> one for circa 2000 linux. Unfortunately, I think the binary in a.out 
> format no longer runs due to some kernel change. Er, I should say that 
> the license server no longer runs. Oh, I forgot to mention. Sun, er, 
> Oracle Solaris still has Omron WNN Jserver with its rich dictionary and 
> so I can use Emacs with TAMAGO .el libary and/or kinput2-wnn-v3.1 
> frontend there very comfortably. I have an image of old Solaris 10 still 
> intact and it runs fine with Emacs + TAMAGO although I don't use it 
> often any more. Maybe testing program portability from time to time.)
> 
> I wish I could say "Hope this helps", but I am afraid that the above is 
> a working method that may not have much future (like 10-15 years only at 
> the maximum, or much shorter.)?
> 
> It would be interesting to learn where the OP settles for Japanese input 
> under linux when he/she is not bound by an antiquated input method and 
> can start afresh more or less.
> 
> 
> TIA
> 
> 
>