From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: JBash Subject: Re: Re: Org-mode as a bug tracker. Date: Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:15:28 -0400 Message-ID: <407c66ac0907200715u62b84fdfodcefe0fca2f825b@mail.gmail.com> References: <87ocrj728a.fsf@telefonica.net> <87fxcv6zvc.fsf@telefonica.net> <87zlb28e0k.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> <87bpng74x1.fsf@telefonica.net> <87fxcr513q.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0706658114==" Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MSteR-0003Vr-LU for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:15:35 -0400 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MSteM-0003Tv-CI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:15:34 -0400 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=39035 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MSteM-0003Tq-7S for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:15:30 -0400 Received: from mail-qy0-f183.google.com ([209.85.221.183]:33401) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MSteL-0006ck-Sg for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:15:30 -0400 Received: by qyk13 with SMTP id 13so1815562qyk.14 for ; Mon, 20 Jul 2009 07:15:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87fxcr513q.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Bastien Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=D3scar_Fuentes?= , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org --===============0706658114== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364ee2ea2154f8046f23c550 --0016364ee2ea2154f8046f23c550 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not sure if this helps, and I don't know the details or the mechanism, but = I believe that John Wiegley uses org-mode as a bug tracking tool for his ledger app. http://wiki.github.com/jwiegley/ledger On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 2:18 AM, Bastien wrot= e: > =D3scar Fuentes writes: > > > Using org-mode instead of outline-mode is a no-brainer. The only > > incovenient is org's complexity. A basic but effective use of org is > > straightforward but its extensive documentation may seem daunting for > > the occasional user. Maybe a paragraph or two at the beginning of the > > file explaining what's required for adding entries and doing simple > > queries would help those developers who don't know nor plan to use org > > for other uses. > > I will write a page on Worg about this. > > >> This is the basic workflow. Of course, permissions and other issues > >> could be refined but I think such a system is feasible. > > > > IMAO this setup is more complex and fragile than a conventional bug > > tracker. The idea may seem appealing at first for a group of veteran > > emacs users (those who insist on managing the bug database via e-mail > > because they refuse to use a web browser, for instance) but I'm far fro= m > > convinced about its effectiveness. > > Aside from the scalability of Org wrt to big bug databases, I'm myself > only 50% convinced it's an effective setup. I'd be glad to work on the > remaining 50%. > > >> I don't think the size of the database would really be an issue for th= e > >> system above - but maybe I'm wrong on this. > > > > I'm afraid you are. Lots of emacs bug reports comprises hundreds of > > lines of stack dumps, plus e-mail discussions with lots of quoted text, > > etc. Org is great for notes, but is it practical for containing tens of > > thousands of bug reports, some of them made of thousands of lines? And > > you don't control what's on a bug report, they usually contain all sort= s > > of text constructs and random characters. How well it would deal with > > bug reports about org's itself, containing excerpts from other org > > files? Wouldn't this confuse org? > > I don't know. Org is certainly not written for that purpose. But > cannot the dumps and discussions but attached as files? If so, the > Org database would only need links to these files, not the full bug > entry. > > > Nope, the 20MB is the bugs' text alone. > > Gee... > > > But attached files belong to the > > tickets and supposedly provide key information, so you can wipe them > > away to a place where they are not distributed along with the bug > > database. > > Yes. > > > I think org as a bug tracker may work very well for individual > > developers or for small groups, but not for open big projects such as > > emacs. > > Yes. In the setup I described in the previous email, no human directly > write anything in an Org buffer, everything is taken care of by scripts. > Which is kinda sick, 'cause Org is for humans. > > But still, I will continue to brainstorm on this, because if Org is so > useful for individual bug databases, there should be a clever and useful > way to *share* these individual databases and have a collective tool. > > -- > Bastien > > > _______________________________________________ > Emacs-orgmode mailing list > Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. > Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode > --0016364ee2ea2154f8046f23c550 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not sure if this helps, and I don't know the details or the mechanism, = but I believe that John Wiegley uses org-mode as a bug tracking tool for hi= s ledger app.=A0

http://wiki.github.com/jwiegley/ledger

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 2:18 AM, Bastien <bastieng= uerry@googlemail.com> wrote:
=D3scar Fuentes <ofv= @wanadoo.es> writes:

> Using org-mode instead of outline-mode is a no= -brainer. The only
> incovenient is org's complexity. A basic but effective use of org = is
> straightforward but its extensive documentation may seem daunting for<= br> > the occasional user. Maybe a paragraph or two at the beginning of the<= br> > file explaining what's required for adding entries and doing simpl= e
> queries would help those developers who don't know nor plan to use= org
> for other uses.

I will write a page on Worg about this.

>> This is the basic workflow. =A0Of course, permissions and other is= sues
>> could be refined but I think such a system is feasible.
>
> IMAO this setup is more complex and fragile than a conventional bug > tracker. The idea may seem appealing at first for a group of veteran > emacs users (those who insist on managing the bug database via e-mail<= br> > because they refuse to use a web browser, for instance) but I'm fa= r from
> convinced about its effectiveness.

Aside from the scalability of Org wrt to big bug databases, I'm m= yself
only 50% convinced it's an effective setup. =A0I'd be glad to work = on the
remaining 50%.

>> I don't think the size of the database would really be an issu= e for the
>> system above - but maybe I'm wrong on this.
>
> I'm afraid you are. Lots of emacs bug reports comprises hundreds o= f
> lines of stack dumps, plus e-mail discussions with lots of quoted text= ,
> etc. Org is great for notes, but is it practical for containing tens o= f
> thousands of bug reports, some of them made of thousands of lines? And=
> you don't control what's on a bug report, they usually contain= all sorts
> of text constructs and random characters. How well it would deal with<= br> > bug reports about org's itself, containing excerpts from other org=
> files? =A0Wouldn't this confuse org?

I don't know. =A0Org is certainly not written for that purpose. = =A0But
cannot the dumps and discussions but attached as files? =A0If so, the
Org database would only need links to these files, not the full bug
entry.

> Nope, the 20MB is the bugs' text alone.

Gee...

> But attached files belong to the
> tickets and supposedly provide key information, so you can wipe them > away to a place where they are not distributed along with the bug
> database.

Yes.

> I think org as a bug tracker may work very well for individual
> developers or for small groups, but not for open big projects such as<= br> > emacs.

Yes. =A0In the setup I described in the previous email, no human dire= ctly
write anything in an Org buffer, everything is taken care of by scripts. Which is kinda sick, 'cause Org is for humans.

But still, I will continue to brainstorm on this, because if Org is so
useful for individual bug databases, there should be a clever and useful way to *share* these individual databases and have a collective tool.

--
=A0Bastien


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--0016364ee2ea2154f8046f23c550-- --===============0706658114== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Emacs-orgmode mailing list Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list. Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode --===============0706658114==--