From: "Tim O'Callaghan" <timo@dspsrv.com>
To: Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
Cc: org-mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: A simpler remember architecture (was: Re: Re: is there a hook to save a remember buffer?)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 17:55:31 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3d6808890909300855v334d8816k6122245d96ecadb0@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <120064D0-FCDF-4B7E-A7D1-933CC9D0F52D@gmail.com>
> - 'throw it into the bucket for later'.
>
> what does that mean?
Kind of works as remember now. Currently you have a 'default save to
point' for a particular template. I would guess that most people just
throw it all into the one 'bucket' and sort it out later.
>
>> - org - remember keymap
>
> Why do you need this?
I don't use the C-0-, C-1, whatever. I have my own keys mapped for the
remember buffer. I use C-X c-s for org-remember-finalize for example,
which may cause conflicts.
>
>> - local fontification?
>
> Why do you need this?
I plan on expanding on the 'keeping me honest' idea, Which i am still
working on and will turn into a contrib. I want to use fontification
for "malformed" headings etc as warnings in unfilled remember
templates. For example, to highlight an empty/malformed effort
property. I suspect it would be easier, and faster to apply on a
per-template/buffer basis, rather than the whole org-file.
>
>> - remove need to have remember package installed?
>
> That need does not exist even now.
>
I was having trouble recently with a lack of remember. A problem in my
config, which I've just fixed. Thanks for pointing it out.
Possibly make remember editing a minor mode? That would allow for any
extra keymaps and fonrification and such wouldn't it?
Tim.
> - Carsten
>
>>
>> Tim.
>>
>> 2009/9/30 Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> I don't know what the others think....
>>>
>>> ... but I think this is a brilliant idea.
>>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>> On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:48 PM, Samuel Wales wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Carsten,
>>>>
>>>> Here is an idea for a much simpler remember architecture that
>>>> simultaneously solves Alan's problem.
>>>>
>>>> 1) To me also, a more complicated way to deal with
>>>> remember buffers feels wrong.
>>>> 2) If there is more than one thing you are working on, the
>>>> power of the org hierarchy feels like the best way to
>>>> keep track.
>>>>
>>>> 3) The current remember probably does not do what Alan
>>>> wants, even with a better workflow.
>>>> - What if you want to remember from remember?
>>>> - It feels complicated to finalize the old idea and go
>>>> there, then remember the new one, then finish the old
>>>> one, then go back to where you were. Maybe we can
>>>> simplify.
>>>> - When you've finished the old one, you want to restore
>>>> context to before the old idea. This is probably
>>>> impossible. The stack is blown.
>>>> 4) Other issues:
>>>> - If you forget to finalize, you lose data.
>>>> - It is easy to reflexively call remember from remember,
>>>> making you surprised that the old idea disappeared.
>>>> - You might forget that you had the old idea.
>>>> Especially if you are having short-term memory issues
>>>> or are distracted.
>>>>
>>>> 5) Here is my idea: discard the concept of remember
>>>> buffers entirely.
>>>> - Create the entry at the target location when you call
>>>> org-remember.
>>>> - Employ a virtual buffer to narrow to the created
>>>> entry.
>>>>
>>>> 6) Some benefits:
>>>> 1) Alan can remember, then remember again, then
>>>> remember a third time without having to save
>>>> remember buffers or name them (which he would need).
>>>> 2) Your idea is where it should be. If you want
>>>> context, you simply remove the narrowing.
>>>> 3) org has access to the target buffer's buffer-local
>>>> variables, org variables, encoding and multilingual
>>>> settings of the target, etc.
>>>> 4) Auto-save saves to a place where Emacs will pick it
>>>> up again if Emacs crashes.
>>>> 5) A backup directory is no longer necessary to restore
>>>> data from a killed (remember) buffer.
>>>> 6) Finalizing is no longer a matter of losing your data
>>>> if you forget. It merely pops windows.
>>>>
>>>> 7) If you still want the concept of "I am not done
>>>> remembering this remember," add a tag (:REMEMBERING:)
>>>> at creation time and have org-remember-finalize remove
>>>> that tag. To see in-progress remembers, call the
>>>> agenda on that tag.
>>>>
>>>> 8) This eases yak shaving.
>>>> - http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Y/yak-shaving.html
>>>> - This is a simple way to keep track of what you were
>>>> doing when you remember from remember.
>>>> - I recommend making org-remember-finalize use a
>>>> /stack/, so that successive invocations recreate the
>>>> previous window/buffer context until they get to the
>>>> original context.
>>>> - I think that we intuitively work in stacks. This
>>>> lets us avoid overloading our own memory.
>>>> - If Emacs crashes, the worst thing that will happen is
>>>> that you end up with a bunch of :REMEMBERING: tasks
>>>> around your org files. Not lost data.
>>>>
>>>> To summarize, the current remember naturally leads to the
>>>> need for increasing workarounds, and therefore requests for
>>>> features, which leads to more complexity. By leveraging the
>>>> power of the org hierarchy, we can simplify, and get yak
>>>> shaving support as a nice surprise benefit.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 02:37, Carsten Dominik
>>>> <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Allen,
>>>>>
>>>>> saving remember buffers is hackish and complex as it is, so I am not
>>>>> going
>>>>> to add this option.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the workflow has to be this:
>>>>>
>>>>> Create a remember buffer and more-or-less immediately file it.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you need to work on the content for a longer time, work on it at the
>>>>> target location: Simply exit remember with C-u C-c C-c. The buffer
>>>>> will
>>>>> be
>>>>> filed and the target location will be visited immediately. So now you
>>>>> can
>>>>> work there as long as you want, and start another remember process when
>>>>> you
>>>>> need one.
>>>>>
>>>>> HTH
>>>>>
>>>>> - Carsten
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 9, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've looked briefly into the org-remember.el. A hook exists:
>>>>>> remember-mode-hook. Im not sure it can be successfully applied to the
>>>>>> case
>>>>>> I envision.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> THere are tradeoffs to immediately saving a remember buffer to a file,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> editing a note in the remember buffer, then saving with
>>>>>> remember-finalize.
>>>>>> I don't remember what they are, as they led me away from immediately
>>>>>> saving
>>>>>> quite a while ago. I was strongly encouraged by the establishment of a
>>>>>> procedure to automatically save to a directory, any remember buffer
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> not finallized. I had some issues with it, including how clunky it
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> recover, and it was broken at some point, when I was too busy to fix
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One problem with editing in the Remember buffer, then saving later, is
>>>>>> forgetting where I am. I can rely on several remember templates, and
>>>>>> too
>>>>>> often have lost the remember buffer's contents, when I ran remember
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I propose is the make it possible---optionally---to invoke a hook
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> save existing remember buffers when C-c C-r (X) is used to file a
>>>>>> remember
>>>>>> note while in the remember buffer already.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I found a test "bufferp". It does not seem to recognize the buffer
>>>>>> name
>>>>>> "Remember", nor "*Remember*".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it possible to do this, or is remember going to defeat this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan Davis
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing---that's
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> counts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----Richard Feynman
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Alan E. Davis <lngndvs@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Is there a hook to save the remember buffer when I type C-c C-r when
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> in an unsaved remember buffer? That would be almost as good, perhaps
>>>>>> better, than saving the remember buffer to a special file or
>>>>>> directory.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world,
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing---that's
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> counts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----Richard Feynman
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>>>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Myalgic encephalomyelitis causes death (Jason et al. 2006)
>>>> and severe suffering. Conflicts of interest are destroying
>>>> research. What people "know" is wrong. Silence = death.
>>>> http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>
>
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2009-09-30 15:56 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2009-09-29 20:48 A simpler remember architecture (was: Re: Re: is there a hook to save a remember buffer?) Samuel Wales
2009-09-30 10:39 ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
2009-09-30 10:40 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-09-30 14:45 ` Tim O'Callaghan
2009-09-30 14:50 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-09-30 15:55 ` Tim O'Callaghan [this message]
2009-10-01 3:25 ` Sebastian Rose
2009-10-05 23:41 ` A simpler remember architecture Daniel Clemente
2009-10-06 0:24 ` Alan E. Davis
2009-10-01 8:03 ` A simpler remember architecture (was: Re: Re: is there a hook to save a remember buffer?) Jean-Marie Gaillourdet
2009-10-01 9:14 ` Rainer Stengele
2009-10-01 10:26 ` Peter Frings
2009-10-01 18:41 ` A simpler remember architecture Bernt Hansen
2009-10-02 8:08 ` Jean-Marie Gaillourdet
2009-10-02 13:54 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-10-03 2:48 ` David Bremner
2009-10-06 6:49 ` Daniel Clemente
2009-10-06 11:32 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-10-06 12:27 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-10-06 14:33 ` Daniel Clemente
2009-10-06 14:34 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-10-07 7:17 ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
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