From: "Tim O'Callaghan" <timo@dspsrv.com>
To: Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>
Cc: org-mode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: A simpler remember architecture (was: Re: Re: is there a hook to save a remember buffer?)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:45:17 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3d6808890909300745i4213a0ddo9e12be00c4bb4023@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <2647742D-5A30-4F33-8FDF-E5203B2E0246@gmail.com>
+1, can we keep/have:
- the templates,
- possibility to 'pick file/topic first then remember'
- 'throw it into the bucket for later'.
- org - remember keymap
- local fontification?
- remove need to have remember package installed?
Tim.
2009/9/30 Carsten Dominik <carsten.dominik@gmail.com>:
> I don't know what the others think....
>
> ... but I think this is a brilliant idea.
>
> - Carsten
>
> On Sep 29, 2009, at 10:48 PM, Samuel Wales wrote:
>
>> Hi Carsten,
>>
>> Here is an idea for a much simpler remember architecture that
>> simultaneously solves Alan's problem.
>>
>> 1) To me also, a more complicated way to deal with
>> remember buffers feels wrong.
>> 2) If there is more than one thing you are working on, the
>> power of the org hierarchy feels like the best way to
>> keep track.
>>
>> 3) The current remember probably does not do what Alan
>> wants, even with a better workflow.
>> - What if you want to remember from remember?
>> - It feels complicated to finalize the old idea and go
>> there, then remember the new one, then finish the old
>> one, then go back to where you were. Maybe we can
>> simplify.
>> - When you've finished the old one, you want to restore
>> context to before the old idea. This is probably
>> impossible. The stack is blown.
>> 4) Other issues:
>> - If you forget to finalize, you lose data.
>> - It is easy to reflexively call remember from remember,
>> making you surprised that the old idea disappeared.
>> - You might forget that you had the old idea.
>> Especially if you are having short-term memory issues
>> or are distracted.
>>
>> 5) Here is my idea: discard the concept of remember
>> buffers entirely.
>> - Create the entry at the target location when you call
>> org-remember.
>> - Employ a virtual buffer to narrow to the created
>> entry.
>>
>> 6) Some benefits:
>> 1) Alan can remember, then remember again, then
>> remember a third time without having to save
>> remember buffers or name them (which he would need).
>> 2) Your idea is where it should be. If you want
>> context, you simply remove the narrowing.
>> 3) org has access to the target buffer's buffer-local
>> variables, org variables, encoding and multilingual
>> settings of the target, etc.
>> 4) Auto-save saves to a place where Emacs will pick it
>> up again if Emacs crashes.
>> 5) A backup directory is no longer necessary to restore
>> data from a killed (remember) buffer.
>> 6) Finalizing is no longer a matter of losing your data
>> if you forget. It merely pops windows.
>>
>> 7) If you still want the concept of "I am not done
>> remembering this remember," add a tag (:REMEMBERING:)
>> at creation time and have org-remember-finalize remove
>> that tag. To see in-progress remembers, call the
>> agenda on that tag.
>>
>> 8) This eases yak shaving.
>> - http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/Y/yak-shaving.html
>> - This is a simple way to keep track of what you were
>> doing when you remember from remember.
>> - I recommend making org-remember-finalize use a
>> /stack/, so that successive invocations recreate the
>> previous window/buffer context until they get to the
>> original context.
>> - I think that we intuitively work in stacks. This
>> lets us avoid overloading our own memory.
>> - If Emacs crashes, the worst thing that will happen is
>> that you end up with a bunch of :REMEMBERING: tasks
>> around your org files. Not lost data.
>>
>> To summarize, the current remember naturally leads to the
>> need for increasing workarounds, and therefore requests for
>> features, which leads to more complexity. By leveraging the
>> power of the org hierarchy, we can simplify, and get yak
>> shaving support as a nice surprise benefit.
>>
>> Let me know what you think.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 02:37, Carsten Dominik
>> <carsten.dominik@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Allen,
>>>
>>> saving remember buffers is hackish and complex as it is, so I am not
>>> going
>>> to add this option.
>>>
>>> I think the workflow has to be this:
>>>
>>> Create a remember buffer and more-or-less immediately file it.
>>>
>>> If you need to work on the content for a longer time, work on it at the
>>> target location: Simply exit remember with C-u C-c C-c. The buffer will
>>> be
>>> filed and the target location will be visited immediately. So now you
>>> can
>>> work there as long as you want, and start another remember process when
>>> you
>>> need one.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>>
>>> - Carsten
>>>
>>> On Sep 9, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Alan E. Davis wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've looked briefly into the org-remember.el. A hook exists:
>>>> remember-mode-hook. Im not sure it can be successfully applied to the
>>>> case
>>>> I envision.
>>>>
>>>> THere are tradeoffs to immediately saving a remember buffer to a file,
>>>> and
>>>> editing a note in the remember buffer, then saving with
>>>> remember-finalize.
>>>> I don't remember what they are, as they led me away from immediately
>>>> saving
>>>> quite a while ago. I was strongly encouraged by the establishment of a
>>>> procedure to automatically save to a directory, any remember buffer that
>>>> was
>>>> not finallized. I had some issues with it, including how clunky it was
>>>> to
>>>> recover, and it was broken at some point, when I was too busy to fix it.
>>>>
>>>> One problem with editing in the Remember buffer, then saving later, is
>>>> forgetting where I am. I can rely on several remember templates, and
>>>> too
>>>> often have lost the remember buffer's contents, when I ran remember
>>>> again.
>>>>
>>>> What I propose is the make it possible---optionally---to invoke a hook
>>>> to
>>>> save existing remember buffers when C-c C-r (X) is used to file a
>>>> remember
>>>> note while in the remember buffer already.
>>>>
>>>> I found a test "bufferp". It does not seem to recognize the buffer name
>>>> "Remember", nor "*Remember*".
>>>>
>>>> Is it possible to do this, or is remember going to defeat this?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alan Davis
>>>>
>>>> You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but
>>>> when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the
>>>> bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing---that's what
>>>> counts.
>>>>
>>>> ----Richard Feynman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Alan E. Davis <lngndvs@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Is there a hook to save the remember buffer when I type C-c C-r when I'm
>>>> in an unsaved remember buffer? That would be almost as good, perhaps
>>>> better, than saving the remember buffer to a special file or directory.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>> You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but
>>>> when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the
>>>> bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing---that's what
>>>> counts.
>>>>
>>>> ----Richard Feynman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
>>> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
>>> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>>> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Myalgic encephalomyelitis causes death (Jason et al. 2006)
>> and severe suffering. Conflicts of interest are destroying
>> research. What people "know" is wrong. Silence = death.
>> http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/What_Is_ME_What_Is_CFS.htm
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Emacs-orgmode mailing list
> Remember: use `Reply All' to send replies to the list.
> Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-orgmode
>
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2009-09-30 14:45 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 22+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2009-09-29 20:48 A simpler remember architecture (was: Re: Re: is there a hook to save a remember buffer?) Samuel Wales
2009-09-30 10:39 ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
2009-09-30 10:40 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-09-30 14:45 ` Tim O'Callaghan [this message]
2009-09-30 14:50 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-09-30 15:55 ` Tim O'Callaghan
2009-10-01 3:25 ` Sebastian Rose
2009-10-05 23:41 ` A simpler remember architecture Daniel Clemente
2009-10-06 0:24 ` Alan E. Davis
2009-10-01 8:03 ` A simpler remember architecture (was: Re: Re: is there a hook to save a remember buffer?) Jean-Marie Gaillourdet
2009-10-01 9:14 ` Rainer Stengele
2009-10-01 10:26 ` Peter Frings
2009-10-01 18:41 ` A simpler remember architecture Bernt Hansen
2009-10-02 8:08 ` Jean-Marie Gaillourdet
2009-10-02 13:54 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-10-03 2:48 ` David Bremner
2009-10-06 6:49 ` Daniel Clemente
2009-10-06 11:32 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-10-06 12:27 ` Carsten Dominik
2009-10-06 14:33 ` Daniel Clemente
2009-10-06 14:34 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-10-07 7:17 ` Eric S Fraga, Eric S Fraga
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