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From: Rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: no empty (zero) string predicate in Elisp
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 21:26:26 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3ab93ddc-f437-483f-8b67-79b761f8589b@googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1626.1430016741.904.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>

On Sunday, April 26, 2015 at 8:22:22 AM UTC+5:30, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > Both for fundamental reasons, cardinals are built from a zero and a
> > successor relationship, therefore a predicate for zero is not stupid,
> > and a 1+ function neither;
> 
> I know that you can model natural numbers from 0 and successor, but
> Elisp integers have very little to do with it and are not encoded in
> this way, and there isn't much code around that looks at them this way.
> So, as much as I like this way to look at the world, I don't find it
> helpful for Elisp.
> 
> > and for optimization reasons on simplistic
> > compilers: the hardware usually HAS specific (and optimized)
> > instructions to test for zero and another to increment.
> 
> C-h f zerop RET says:
> 
>    zerop is a compiled Lisp function in `subr.el'.
>    [...]
>    This function has a compiler macro `zerop--anon-cmacro'.
>    
> and if you look at this mysterious zerop--anon-cmacro, you'll see that
> it optimizes `zerop' by rewriting it to (= 0 ...), which is implemented
> more efficiently.

In this case - zero test in elisp - I guess there is not much to argue against
Stefan's argument.
However in general can be cases where a specialized (curried) test is neat
[eg from python]
In python 'is' is pointer-equality (eq of lisp)
And it is generally recognized that noobs confuse themselves by using 'is' 
rather than ==  just as in Lisp equal is usually a safer option than eq.

However in some arcane cases 'is' is recommended over ==  in particular 
'x is None' is preferable to 'x == None'
[None is like Lisp Nil]
With the result that noobs have to use is in that context and confuse themselves.

If there were a 'None?' predicate like lisp-null one major source of noob confusion would be avoided.


  parent reply	other threads:[~2015-04-26  4:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 28+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-04-25  3:44 no empty (zero) string predicate in Elisp Emanuel Berg
2015-04-25  9:26 ` Nicolas Petton
2015-05-16  9:23   ` Nicolas Petton
2015-05-16 13:22     ` Bozhidar Batsov
2015-05-16 13:28       ` Bozhidar Batsov
2015-05-16 13:36         ` Bozhidar Batsov
2015-05-16 13:46           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-05-16 16:17             ` Bozhidar Batsov
2015-05-16 13:43     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-05-16 15:27     ` Drew Adams
     [not found] ` <mailman.1583.1429954907.904.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-25 11:22   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-25 13:30 ` Stefan Monnier
     [not found] ` <mailman.1591.1429968677.904.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-25 14:48   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-26  2:52     ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-27 10:28       ` zerop: compiler macro vs defsubst (was: no empty (zero) string predicate in Elisp) Nicolas Richard
2015-04-27 12:19         ` zerop: compiler macro vs defsubst Stefan Monnier
     [not found]     ` <mailman.1626.1430016741.904.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-26  4:06       ` no empty (zero) string predicate in Elisp Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-26 21:25         ` Stefan Monnier
2015-04-26  4:26       ` Rusi [this message]
2015-04-26 12:36   ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-26 15:03     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-26 18:34       ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-26 18:59         ` Marcin Borkowski
     [not found]         ` <mailman.1658.1430074770.904.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-26 19:06           ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-26 20:11             ` Marcin Borkowski
     [not found]             ` <mailman.1662.1430079142.904.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-27  1:00               ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-26 17:28     ` Rusi
2015-04-26 18:39       ` Emanuel Berg

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