From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Rusi Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 18:16:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3a1c3c18-0a6f-4b1a-8402-42ee2f286dd8@googlegroups.com> References: <87sicvwckx.fsf@wmi.amu.edu.pl> <87wq27yvqg.fsf@debian.uxu> <8d531e99-7260-4263-ac99-09c6871e2708@googlegroups.com> <87vbhq53lf.fsf@debian.uxu> <828c5115-a61b-4c42-b6d5-7bdcc6a691f0@googlegroups.com> <87bnjf8enq.fsf@debian.uxu> <877fu2t9l0.fsf@debian.uxu> <87d23uyrt7.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1427505630 28752 80.91.229.3 (28 Mar 2015 01:20:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 01:20:30 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 28 02:20:23 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YbfQC-0007MS-5C for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Mar 2015 02:20:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52466 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YbfQB-0000jV-3x for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Mar 2015 21:20:19 -0400 X-Received: by 10.66.221.165 with SMTP id qf5mr24917606pac.30.1427505371387; Fri, 27 Mar 2015 18:16:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.141.134 with SMTP id ro6mr33280igb.0.1427505370942; Fri, 27 Mar 2015 18:16:10 -0700 (PDT) Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!news.glorb.com!h15no42504igd.0!news-out.google.com!db6ni2igc.0!nntp.google.com!h15no42498igd.0!postnews.google.com!glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help In-Reply-To: <87d23uyrt7.fsf@kuiper.lan.informatimago.com> Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=117.195.49.250; posting-account=mBpa7woAAAAGLEWUUKpmbxm-Quu5D8ui Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 117.195.49.250 User-Agent: G2/1.0 Injection-Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 01:16:10 +0000 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:211128 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:103410 Archived-At: On Saturday, March 28, 2015 at 4:32:46 AM UTC+5:30, Pascal J. Bourguignon wrote: > Emanuel Berg writes: > > > Hey... Why don't you Unicode and FP lovers do a new > > editor called "Uhacs" (for Unicode, Haskell, and > > Emacs) - the best thing with this editor is the > > development time, which is actually zero. Because when > > you start working on it, the result is a side-effect, > > which is intolerable by definition, so you have to > > stop :) Wait... oups, I did it again! But that joke > > wasn't rude, was it? Rather, it is funny because it is > > true :) > > Well, yes and no. > > That is, you can make the joke about purely functional systems running > on Von Neuman archiectures, where anything is done only with side > effects. "Functional" has been a rather moving target in the last 50 years: Recently came across this interview of John McCarthy http://www.infoq.com/interviews/Steele-Interviews-John-McCarthy In the 1st question he says he learnt functional programming from Backus' Fortran. Even to someone who is a bit of an old-timer like myself, this view is amazing. Younger kids dont even get how shocking is being said here: When I mentioned this on the Haskell list someone (only) connected it with Backus' Turing award lecture. Whereas if one reads the Turing award lecture, clearly Backus is doing penitence for the 'sin' of inventing Fortran, 20 years after the invention. And yet one needs to admit that in 1957 Fortran was a functional language -- the very name carries that intention. By 1977 that stand needed a very public withdrawal. And so in summary: In 1957 For(mula Tran(slator) was the (one and only) functional language 1960 Lisp 60s Lisp+APL 70s ML, Also 'theoretical languages' like ISWIM 80s Lazy languages FPLs like SASL, KRC, Miranda start appearing While the landmark SICP is from 80s, we also have the beginning rumbles saying Lisp has retarded the progress of functional programming and CS education by 10 years [David Turner, Phil Wadler] [Interestingly it appears that in the late 80s McCarthy said Lisp was not functional] 90s Haskell This century: Some unexpected resurgence of Lisp as functional -- CLojure I am ready to bet that 20 years from now Haskell wont be regarded as a properly functional language. Beginning rumbles: Bob Harper's Haskell is exceptionally unsafe [Seems to be removed, heres an archive version https://web.archive.org/web/20150102135555/https://existentialtype.wordpress.com/2012/08/14/haskell-is-exceptionally-unsafe/ ]