From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Can bug #9074 please be fixed? Reporting bugs is still horribly broken Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:18:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3FD3886FCD2A4C05941772F07AB86673@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1314029916 27649 80.91.229.12 (22 Aug 2011 16:18:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:18:36 +0000 (UTC) To: Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 22 18:18:32 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QvXCo-0007xS-3n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 18:18:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59805 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvXCn-0000ct-Gg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:18:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:39205) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvXCk-0000cQ-CP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:18:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvXCj-00089z-3e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:18:26 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]:62255) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QvXCi-00089t-Pr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:18:25 -0400 Original-Received: from rtcsinet22.oracle.com (rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p7MGIL34018436 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:18:23 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by rtcsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p7MGIKun007341 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:18:21 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt108.oracle.com (abhmt108.oracle.com [141.146.116.60]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p7MGIEwS024727 for ; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 11:18:15 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:18:14 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Acxg5xiX24KCCvJ/Rp+cPTou50uudg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 X-Source-IP: rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090204.4E52814F.00F3,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 141.146.126.227 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:143506 Archived-At: This annoying bug is going on two months old soon. Can it please be fixed? We should NOT be making users jump through unnecessary hoops to report bugs from emacs -Q. We should make it as easy as possible for users to report bugs. There is NO reason that a user who already has an outside-Emacs email client (e.g. Outlook, Thunderbird) configured should be bothered by questions about the email address, forced to edit the `From:' field etc. each time s?he trys to report a bug from emacs -Q (and emacs -Q reports are what we encourage). This smacks of annoying marketeering solications to subscribe, enter a contest, etc.. "SPECIAL OFFER! - Do you want to use Emacs to do your laundry? Enter NOW!" And yet we're not selling soap or anything else here - we're just asking for some help from users in the form of feedback. The recent zeal to GNUSify things (or SMTPify, or whatever the motivation) has hampered Emacs for ordinary users, many of whom already have mail configured outside Emacs and should not be bothered by this silliness. This is totally unnecessary. It is a sophomoric UI: 1. "Is `someone@SOMEMACHINE.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me' really your email address? (yes or no) " 2. Answer `no'. 3. Scroll up to find `From:'. Edit it to show the correct email address. 4. Try C-c C-c again. 5. "Configure outgoing SMTP in Emacs (y or n)" 6. Answer `n'. ALL of that is unnecessary annoyance. It does not respect users. And it probably has a negative effect on our obtaining bug reports. This just gives the impression that _Emacs_ doesn't know how to use email! After all, who doesn't already have email configured nowadays? (No, please don't bother explaining about configuring email for a local GNU/Linux machine. Tim already addressed this in detail - if you cannot see the light otherwise, please just think "mobile devices" and "21st century".) Whether or not a user has email configured is NOT the business of `report-emacs-bug'. If email is not configured properly then the user will find out about it soon enough. Our missing a bug report because the occasional user's email was not configured is nowhere near as bad as annoying lots of users over and over again (and possibly missing bug reports because they decide it's just not worth the silly hassle). The dialog to send a bug report should not include a dialog to configure email. Period. This should be a no-brainer. I cannot believe the Emacs maintainers have let this nonsense go on so long.