From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Kevin Rodgers Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: doc elisp intro cross reference fixes Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 13:23:49 -0700 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: <3FBBD155.2050703@yahoo.com> References: <87wua28zux.fsf@zip.com.au> <87ad6vdsxi.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <200311190418.hAJ4ITC02466@raven.dms.auburn.edu> <200311190528.hAJ5SrK02553@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1069273647 5919 80.91.224.253 (19 Nov 2003 20:27:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:27:27 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Wed Nov 19 21:27:23 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AMYv5-0001hQ-00 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:27:23 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AMYv5-0001CZ-00 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:27:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AMZqZ-0001C1-IU for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:26:47 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AMZpZ-0001AT-3S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:25:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AMZp0-00013Q-Ez for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:25:41 -0500 Original-Received: from [80.91.224.249] (helo=main.gmane.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AMZoz-000133-LY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:25:09 -0500 Original-Received: from list by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AMYrX-0004MG-00 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:23:43 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-Received: from sea.gmane.org ([80.91.224.252]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AMYrW-0004M8-00 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:23:42 +0100 Original-Received: from news by sea.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AMYrW-0001PC-00 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:23:42 +0100 Original-Lines: 41 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS i86pc; en-US; rv:0.9.4.1) Gecko/20020406 Netscape6/6.2.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:17926 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:17926 Stefan Monnier wrote: >> After (defcustom foobar 1 "hello"), set-variable is quite happy to >> let me set the variable `foobar'. > >>On second thought, I believe that is a bug. > > It's clearly not a bug. A misfeature maybe, but not a bug since code > was written explicitly for it. The code you're referring to is Fuser_variable_p, right? > Anyway my point is that the difference between defcustom with and without > a * is in practice absent and in theory much too subtle and debatable to > justify its existence (after all, who knows whether users will want to set > something interactively or only at startup). > > I suggest we just get rid of the distinction altogether. I disagree. It is a useful distinction, and programmers can take advantage of it to prevent users from setting variables in a way that they shouldn't (and thence submitting bug reports when they don't get the desired effect). I don't find the explanation of Variable Definitions in the Emacs Lisp manual that Luc cited to be too subtle. And I don't understand what startup vs. session time has to do with it: it only has to do with whether set-variable can be used interactively. set-variable and customize are independent mechanisms that are enabled by a doc string convention and the custom-* symbol properties respectively, and as a programmer I'd like to retain control over those mechanisms. -- Kevin Rodgers