From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Guile in Emacs Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:54:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3EFDD45EB5AD4018B8FEA8F13CFEDA32@us.oracle.com> References: <4B8147A9.7030504@gmail.com> <3vsk8ecg6a.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org><873a0euot4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <873a0cyv3r.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <87aauiho3y.fsf_-_@lifelogs.com><1271028837.6164.55.camel@dell-desktop.example.com><1271102739.6067.38.camel@dell-desktop.example.com><8039yz34ka.fsf@tiny.isode.net><1271173887.6067.53.camel@dell-desktop.example.com> <87FA5F05CB9C41409B9E72BD06D7C8CF@us.oracle.com> <87fx2xp839.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1271331837 1830 80.91.229.12 (15 Apr 2010 11:43:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:43:57 +0000 (UTC) To: "'David Kastrup'" , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 15 13:43:56 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O2NU8-00016W-Ci for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:43:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34888 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O2NU6-0006wA-UA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:43:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1O2NT1-0006Zu-Dw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:42:43 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=42602 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O2NSz-0006Y0-E1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:42:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O2NSv-0001HP-Ns for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 07:42:41 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:37735) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O2Iyg-00068y-U7; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 02:55:07 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o3F6t33v007168 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 15 Apr 2010 06:55:05 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o3F6t2v6003014; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 06:55:02 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt003.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 162166191271314472; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:54:32 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/141.144.72.170) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 23:54:32 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcrcYTHdF6Zklej0Ro2z3qSAMhWZhAABV+Gg In-Reply-To: <87fx2xp839.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 X-Source-IP: acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4BC6B847.00CB:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:123704 Archived-At: > >> Common Lisp has sooo much to document. The Emacs Lisp Manual would > >> get a lot bigger if it had to include the specs of so many > >> functions. > > > > The Elisp manual would not need to document things that are vanilla > > Common Lisp (i.e. respect the CL standard). It could simply > > cross-reference the relevant CL doc. The Elisp manual would need to > > document only extensions or departures from the standard. > > It does not need to reproduce all of the existing CL documentation. > > The manuals of an editor with a user-accessible extension > language (with Emacs, this is the case for Elisp but not > for C) need to document this extension language. Emacs needs to document its extension language, yes of course. That means that it needs to enable users to obtain complete documentation about the language. That does not mean that the Emacs manuals (e.g. Elisp manual) themselves need to specify everything about CL functions Emacs might support. It simply means that Emacs needs to provide users access to that information. A cross reference can be focused directly to an appropriate section of existing Common-Lisp documentation. We need not just dump a user into the TOC of a large manual. It is a choice whether we want clicking a cross-reference in an Emacs manual to take you (a) to a section of the same manual or another manual available locally or (b) to a section of a manual that might be on the Web. A cross reference might well be to a non-local or a non-GNU manual or specification. What is important is that we give users access to the specific info they need. > Otherwise, only programmers can be expected to be able to use it. One > reason for that is that non-Emacs specific Lisp manuals will not focus > about how to get things done with Emacs. Applying a manual utterly > without editing focus to editing tasks is quite a large intellectual > feat. The Emacs manual(s) will of course focus on how to get things done with Emacs. If there is something Emacs-specific to be said about a function such as `some', then yes, the Emacs manuals are an appropriate place to say that. That does not imply that everything possible to be said about every Common-Lisp construct needs to be covered in the Emacs manual. That would be an absurd approach.