From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: A proposal for a friendlier Emacs Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 15:44:15 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA11AB6-0FE8-44CF-8261-024F4C86BBD3@gnu.support> References: <4be18b5f-dc07-2703-a2de-1ed08916ebdf@gmail.com> <20200921170740.GA3551@protected.rcdrun.com> <20200922062437.GM6402@protected.rcdrun.com> <83zh5hx5qf.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6966"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: nicola.manca85@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 22 17:54:51 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kKkd0-0001iM-IH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 17:54:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60176 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKkcz-0003vt-JW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 11:54:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40842) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKkTd-00068D-Po for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 11:45:09 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:37767) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kKkTc-0001DD-0y; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 11:45:09 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.44.7] ([::ffff:197.157.0.18]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_CHACHA20_POLY1305) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000005613D.000000005F6A1C00.00000804; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 08:45:04 -0700 In-Reply-To: <83zh5hx5qf.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/22 10:11:15 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -3 X-Spam_score: -0.4 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:256327 Archived-At: Configuration wizard is good for database setup, or network related setups,= and situations where software as such is not usable without configuring it= =2E Key me mention email software, it would be good to have such wizard for= email or Gnus within Emacs=2E For connection to PostgreSQL it would be goo= d as it would ask user fit username, hostname, ports, etc=2E For Tramp or f= or setting up some list of Tramp servers with some usernames and passwords = it would make sense=2E Emacs as such is usable without any configuration, thus wizard would do no= thing good but irritate Emacs users, in my opinion, it would be programmer'= s capricious control over users, to force them to configure Emacs=2E If beginner is considered new user, why a person new to Emacs should be fo= rced to configure Emacs?! Especially if software functions as it is without= any configuration=2E It is waste of time and would bring beginners into ne= w misunderstandings=2E=20 To include some general AI audio-video interactive assistant that helps wi= th any function in Emacs, within Tutorial or outside, or to improve present= describe- functions would be good, but not as force at first run=2E In general it is bad to change the long standing policy that user need not= have =2Eemacs configuration, or to force the user to have such, and to und= ermine and tell the user and Emacs that such cannot be used without configu= ration=2E Even worse is changing the established policy that Emacs launched without = =2Eemacs is run by beginners=2E Why would authors need to make such assumpt= ions? Is it established in the editor software in the world that if there is no = editor configuration that user is beginner who need teaching on how to conf= igure software that functions anyway fine without being configured? I don't= think so and it is not logical=2E We empower users by bringing better understanding to them and wizard idea = is one such attempt, I just don't agree that it should be forced onto user = by assuming that user is beginner who needs teaching if that person does no= t have Emacs configuration=2E And myself I have used Emacs for years without any configuration and still= use that way on 5 computers at home, and 4 servers on internet, and remote= computers in other countries=2E