From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: merging Emacs.app Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:30:35 +0000 Message-ID: <3A14AC15-ECEA-43F6-9881-171469669700@gmail.com> References: <8763vxc1yc.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <200803081714.m28HE79h023783@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <673E01BA-AF78-4DF5-BFD0-ACBC98163D01@gmail.com> <20080309.221408.152627577.mituharu@math.s.chiba-u.ac.jp> <85y78sf2o8.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v919.2) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-7--867431461; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1205073059 2455 80.91.229.12 (9 Mar 2008 14:30:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 14:30:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, dann@ics.uci.edu, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, eliz@gnu.org, YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu , miles@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Mar 09 15:31:25 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JYMYe-0004eS-1s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 15:31:24 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JYMY5-0000hh-Ox for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:30:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JYMY0-0000gK-Jf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:30:44 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JYMXx-0000bR-TL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:30:44 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JYMXx-0000aq-Kb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:30:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mu-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.134.190]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JYMXw-0004JC-L9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 10:30:41 -0400 Original-Received: by mu-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id g7so1510764muf.0 for ; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 07:30:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=xUAAnIp7EHNo6Njgil+qVWdIR50wK4DROHXNecqypT8=; b=HzgWNODoyBb8zXsfT/rhURd/j9mbPoxpEaOzkWyNXy0PJMPbVJZhgRcuP53WYzotkMBgDjkrM2WKOh0t4LyaUJUFJi69LBbRo7cMvEfPgWYVLTEwZVN9vqKoFoD1HCBobgqnWk40jglxFzbxTS0xgKmvqpuGCsNUhHwYFndVccY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:mime-version:subject:date:references:x-mailer; b=XgX4AQTstqikEYL9z8XVr8fgcGw3S5+1kkToL9aedegNXnySL9XrhZL4cmKBmwlXZ/4CaeRhb865j2RvcWHR++7Z1k5OM5+BnuyRiweFNC69CumUbJJ/QveTjf6n7EVxrYh0w9LHjvEboeqLUu6BYBst8a3igzPJ8RBHpApMLhI= Original-Received: by 10.78.81.20 with SMTP id e20mr10387346hub.64.1205073039394; Sun, 09 Mar 2008 07:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from scarlett.lan ( [217.42.26.43]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c22sm13706273ika.3.2008.03.09.07.30.36 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 09 Mar 2008 07:30:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <85y78sf2o8.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.919.2) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:91876 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail-7--867431461 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 9 Mar 2008, at 13:27, David Kastrup wrote: > If David gets substantially more money out of Aquamacs than he sinks > into it, he really needs to tell me his secret. Unfortunately I haven't found that secret either. I do think that adequate compensation is important quite generally. The usual options did not appear promising. Asking for very low download fees ($1-2 per download) doesn't work because micropayment systems are missing, and because it encourages no-value added forks. Selling a manual or so doesn't work because the revenue probably doesn't even compensate the author of the book that hasn't been written (and costs money to be printed). Selling additional consulting services is a no-go either because Emacs is used at universities or by coders, but not much by enough large companies who would pay consultants to write Lisp code. I like the user-driven "wishlist" systems where users promise sums for specific features, but I haven't seen them work for any project yet. Now, money isn't the main motivator, even though it pays the rent. Work on free software is, in my case, booked under "academic service", about like when I review papers for conferences and the occasional journal every now and then. But it also means that I do what's fun and productive, and I try to avoid other things. But in the long run, the movement needs a better answer to the compensation question. --Apple-Mail-7--867431461 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIFxDCCAn0w ggHmoAMCAQICEEfSZyInpN9bVdFPsdICbiIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MTIwOTIzMDM0OFoXDTA4MTIwODIzMDM0 OFowYjEQMA4GA1UEBBMHUmVpdHRlcjEOMAwGA1UEKhMFRGF2aWQxFjAUBgNVBAMTDURhdmlkIFJl aXR0ZXIxJjAkBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWF2RhdmlkLnJlaXR0ZXJAZ21haWwuY29tMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3 DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDIS4kZGULD+CxprkxDnEccAnZ2GQQxfn55aiAPoy5kJ+uLhelaZP4p lgx3Vq8xYK1bjsLepGYp8qzVlHsyQPb6OfvRzrUXHxlJrHME0+Lblx37PBLxGDxc5W8qfZFJpej8 Dk3LUMga8laR9CRghbALoTV3UThUSMqk1cVwTY99KQIDAQABozQwMjAiBgNVHREEGzAZgRdkYXZp ZC5yZWl0dGVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbTAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4GBAKU8XIS6 R/R3Hg6ae5p0i4iUJURq+sDVMX9RGB3Ge5V8oKKglIQGaY03leem65pqICL6mdgX/Px21JoaKVAA 8XITLFVEFHL6BfZ/eePnzNi93rnaNe7hLUwLdGztdYmqN8zF0DOCybL1M1JDB3cTr0XwHJwxziSf oEeENGNETykjMIIDPzCCAqigAwIBAgIBDTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCB0TELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx FTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMRowGAYDVQQKExFUaGF3 dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZzEoMCYGA1UECxMfQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBTZXJ2aWNlcyBEaXZpc2lvbjEk MCIGA1UEAxMbVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIENBMSswKQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhxwZXJz b25hbC1mcmVlbWFpbEB0aGF3dGUuY29tMB4XDTAzMDcxNzAwMDAwMFoXDTEzMDcxNjIzNTk1OVow YjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAq BgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB AQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDEpjxVc1X7TrnKmVoeaMB1BHCd3+n/ox7svc31W/Iadr1/DDph8r9RzgHU 5VAKMNcCY1osiRVwjt3J8CuFWqo/cVbLrzwLB+fxH5E2JCoTzyvV84J3PQO+K/67GD4Hv0CAAmTX p6a7n2XRxSpUhQ9IBH+nttE8YQRAHmQZcmC3+wIDAQABo4GUMIGRMBIGA1UdEwEB/wQIMAYBAf8C AQAwQwYDVR0fBDwwOjA4oDagNIYyaHR0cDovL2NybC50aGF3dGUuY29tL1RoYXd0ZVBlcnNvbmFs RnJlZW1haWxDQS5jcmwwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgEGMCkGA1UdEQQiMCCkHjAcMRowGAYDVQQDExFQcml2 YXRlTGFiZWwyLTEzODANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOBgQBIjNFQg+oLLswNo2asZw9/r6y+whehQ5aU nX9MIbj4Nh+qLZ82L8D0HFAgk3A8/a3hYWLD2ToZfoSxmRsAxRoLgnSeJVCUYsfbJ3FXJY3dqZw5 jowgT2Vfldr394fWxghOrvbqNOUQGls1TXfjViF4gtwhGTXeJLHTHUb/XV9lTzGCAo8wggKLAgEB MHYwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4x LDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBAhBH0mciJ6TfW1XR T7HSAm4iMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgggFvMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcN AQkFMQ8XDTA4MDMwOTE0MzAzNVowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFDs7idoAWfiszitPGhz4vgDvvVLr MIGFBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxeDB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3Vs dGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWlu ZyBDQQIQR9JnIiek31tV0U+x0gJuIjCBhwYLKoZIhvcNAQkQAgsxeKB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpB MSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUg UGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIQR9JnIiek31tV0U+x0gJuIjANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQEFAASBgFIz25FxzVo0hjg1duiP4gjBbHbvr9aOEDNQ0xaTUk8/gx/b1b12PrayFwM/Vof5n5ux Oo0nhHEU466djugow+SGGRkAka9IGkBB6lIKOvXjqObx1eSjcx89yykocVgc4HwMXl5LD708MBpc cRpfEHfI/B3ux3S8Q6pS9aKNEtblAAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail-7--867431461--