From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs as word processor / Text Properties Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 22:03:23 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <39be2217-d01b-4f93-82b6-3df8258d888a@default> References: <87vbzqfgd6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83vbzkcx20.fsf@gnu.org> <83d2lrczi7.fsf@gnu.org> <8338mmcsd9.fsf@gnu.org> <83txf1blf2.fsf@gnu.org> <87txf133yd.fsf@zigzag.favinet> <83r4a5bj5x.fsf@gnu.org> <87mwktdy6r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83iovhb0ez.fsf@gnu.org> <87k3fxdpmg.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <837gbwbcsx.fsf@gnu.org> <87d2lnevq7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87ob57rlkb.fsf_-_@informatimago.com> <35e892b1-73b8-4ca2-9317-7eb83e7223e5@default> <464a688e-b7a5-4f6b-84b4-d7cd42107c8d@default> <87ob55cguk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385618634 26198 80.91.229.3 (28 Nov 2013 06:03:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:03:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "T.V. Raman" , Emacs-Devel devel , "Pascal J. Bourguignon" To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" , Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 28 07:03:57 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vluhb-0002kb-Vw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 07:03:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39293 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vluhb-0000OM-Bn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:03:51 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59736) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VluhR-0000OA-4V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:03:49 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VluhI-0006zy-0P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:03:41 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:45122) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VluhH-0006z1-Q1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:03:31 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id rAS63QOH028399 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:03:27 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rAS63OP0000617 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:03:24 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id rAS63N7S003109; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 06:03:24 GMT In-Reply-To: <87ob55cguk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:165826 Archived-At: > I will grant Drew's point: I'm sure that the high-end WYSIWYG programs > do keep a good separation between content (including expressive > semantics such as "emphasis") and presentation. But *Office doesn't, > and won't for a decade, I expect. And that's our target, not > Framemaker, because the people we need to exchange documents with use > *Office. (They also use HTML and PDF... and mobipocket and epub...) I thought I saw two goals/targets mentioned - somewhat independent, if not contradictory: 1. Exchange with other tools/apps like *Office: import/export (save as). 2. Emacs as a clean WYSIWYG editor. I was speaking mainly to #2: schema-definable structure cohabiting with WYSIWYG. I don't see that #1 alone "is our target". Just one opinion. I might even suggest not worrying about #1 on its own. Get #2 right and import/export will follow, to a large degree. And to the degree that *Office documents are incompatible with clean XML/XHTML/whatever, just say no: don't worry much about it.