From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Ctrl-[ ? Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 22:25:17 +0900 Message-ID: <39C4CA13-5290-42F6-82C1-9E3887B7BE25@traduction-libre.org> References: <08AC8151-5911-40FA-8B20-818B839D00AB@traduction-libre.org> <6F55E018-B15E-42B0-8794-21F55BBA23D3@traduction-libre.org> <34E3289C-10EE-4A23-AEE4-80D984DB2EDE@gnu.org> <6A538FF9-94C8-491D-B1B9-5C0D09FE7C39@acm.org> <838suesw93.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C7510236-63AF-4C8D-B84A-2A451434E81A" Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="266256"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" To: Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 06 15:28:35 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hYsRX-00170e-M9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 15:28:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60570 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYsPl-0002wQ-Oo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 09:26:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38881) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYsOp-0002uQ-Bk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 09:25:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYsOm-0005Cr-QK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 09:25:47 -0400 Original-Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.196]:56727) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYsOl-0003SI-PC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 09:25:44 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 111.89.228.40 Original-Received: from [192.168.1.3] (pl32040.ag0304.nttpc.ne.jp [111.89.228.40]) (Authenticated sender: jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 16703E0009 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 13:25:19 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <838suesw93.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 217.70.183.196 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:237279 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_C7510236-63AF-4C8D-B84A-2A451434E81A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jun 6, 2019, at 22:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> From: Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5rd >> Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 14:44:31 +0200 >> Cc: Emacs developers , >> Jean-Christophe Helary = >>=20 >> 6 juni 2019 kl. 12.12 skrev Eli Zaretskii : >>>=20 >>> It isn't hardcoded in Emacs, it' "hardcoded" in the way the OS = produces character codes when you type keys on the keyboard. C-[ = produces ESC for the same reason C-i produces TAB and C-j produces RET: = these keys emit the same codes as the corresponding Ctrl sequences. >>=20 >> The above is true when Emacs is running in a terminal. Otherwise, = Emacs has code to emulate that behaviour (make_ctrl_char), so that we = can enjoy a whiff of early 1960s bit-paired keyboards. And this does = appear to be hard-coded, in the sense that it cannot be disabled. >=20 > Why is it useful to have different behavior on GUI and TTY frames? Because expectations are different ? Jean-Christophe Helary ----------------------------------------------- http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune --Apple-Mail=_C7510236-63AF-4C8D-B84A-2A451434E81A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Jun 6, 2019, at 22:01, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> = wrote:

From: Mattias Engdeg=C3=A5= rd <mattiase@acm.org>
Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 = 14:44:31 +0200
Cc: Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>,
=        Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org>

6 juni 2019 kl. 12.12 skrev Eli Zaretskii = <eliz@gnu.org>:

It isn't = hardcoded in Emacs, it' "hardcoded" in the way the OS produces character = codes when you type keys on the keyboard.  C-[ produces ESC for the = same reason C-i produces TAB and C-j produces RET: these keys emit the = same codes as the corresponding Ctrl sequences.

The above is true when Emacs is = running in a terminal. Otherwise, Emacs has code to emulate that = behaviour (make_ctrl_char), so that we can enjoy a whiff of early 1960s = bit-paired keyboards. And this does appear to be hard-coded, in the = sense that it cannot be disabled.

Why is it useful to have different behavior on GUI and TTY = frames?

Because expectations are different = ?


Jean-Christophe Helary
-----------------------------------------------
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune


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