From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: defvar without value Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2020 17:36:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37aee3f6-e95f-471d-b565-79022ab8980b@default> References: <87k1302htp.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="13479"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Michael Heerdegen , Emacs Development Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 01 02:37:28 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jJRNl-0003Nm-NK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 01 Apr 2020 02:37:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45506 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jJRNk-0002kY-Pv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:37:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49582) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jJRN6-0002M2-GS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:36:45 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jJRN5-0004pc-7y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:36:44 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:46490) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1jJRN4-0004lu-TH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 31 Mar 2020 20:36:43 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0310SkqD042027; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 00:36:40 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=16Qes5/m+6iZe+1/dhxyHSbSVEgHhBGG/szwyDZPE7I=; b=U0hSskKlGoZ6DIBp9HyNHv52n02QKBvxgYEi9s3Jky9vwuuXmjh5TgofIBl3YkW8XZrn 60zwwR86tKYqDaUf1/79lymxZ8y8ulMrCb4+3HiAiUMAlCvOYaQh8mAaprFKo4BvnhxW MwOWSlmF+OZgvSwMIxYGwKNcpTm2rhoJlunhUZHlDf3A8rzXwVHXHjDUePi452eVZGux yxXcxi4cBvGIZXLApXFm9ggSDR5R7YMeg4X6NYZ7WGO/xDCSjmfB2udDv6t9vfbAyKdm 6g5CnSbmiIXKJI3n3lo27Ake6VOVi3xIcug2wTJCinPNCuTtc0I2QVfRWW8v83F15jPw eA== Original-Received: from userp3020.oracle.com (userp3020.oracle.com [156.151.31.79]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 303aqhk1mk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 01 Apr 2020 00:36:40 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3020.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3020.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 0310W3x4166810; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 00:36:40 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 302g9ycaxy-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 01 Apr 2020 00:36:40 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 0310abXq025942; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 00:36:38 GMT In-Reply-To: <87k1302htp.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4966.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9577 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxlogscore=734 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004010003 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9577 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=795 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 priorityscore=1501 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004010002 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.85 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:246167 Archived-At: > Using `defvar' (on top-level) without specifying a value differs in two > ways from calls that specify a value: (1) the variable's value is not > set, and (2) the variable is made special only in the context of the > (rest of the) current file or buffer. >=20 > I wonder if it is good that these two things are chained together, and > if there are alternatives to what we have now. Latest changes have > revealed that in some cases, people wanted (1) to always get compiler > warnings when a variable is not explicitly bound, but they didn't > intend > that the variable is not always special. Dunno to how many people this > happened, but it is a kind of pitfall. I've thought the same thing. I don't see a logical connection. If that's = right then linking them is a bit ugly. For one thing, it seems wrong that the only way to proclaim that a variable= is to special globally is to give it a defvar default value.