From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: compiled lisp file format (Re: Skipping unexec via a big .elc file) Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 09:37:15 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <36e5ef5d-3ad9-7a30-bf7f-e7467a0af2bf@cs.ucla.edu> References: <8A8DA980-13A7-4F8B-9D07-391728C673C9@raeburn.org> <83lgrhpalq.fsf@gnu.org> <0D99B4FE-FEEF-4565-87D6-E230A05DEF3C@raeburn.org> <86lgrc4vob.fsf@molnjunk.nocrew.org> <834ly0oew1.fsf@gnu.org> <968E8F50-92F6-43C7-B7E4-EE8378943087@raeburn.org> <83wpawmj4d.fsf@gnu.org> <1e397033-8291-1625-8b78-a1e1c200aea5@gmail.com> <18196f08-408d-8b17-423e-8be54507bb84@gmail.com> <8360hkkcgj.fsf@gnu.org> <26b35c16-33e7-0e08-9cc5-6f9b81e40968@cs.ucla.edu> <554fd451-8c5a-755d-1fba-a5473bf2ecfc@cs.ucla.edu> <60D5F708-B068-4D27-8FC5-F73F6AB1C44D@raeburn.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1496075899 28844 195.159.176.226 (29 May 2017 16:38:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 May 2017 16:38:19 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.1.1 Cc: Emacs developers To: Ken Raeburn Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 29 18:38:16 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dFNgN-0007Me-AT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 May 2017 18:38:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49609 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dFNgS-00075z-Re for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 May 2017 12:38:20 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36942) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dFNfY-0006rn-0S for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 29 May 2017 12:37:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dFNfT-0002AX-2q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 29 May 2017 12:37:24 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:33612) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dFNfS-0002AK-S7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 29 May 2017 12:37:18 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07FF01600A7; Mon, 29 May 2017 09:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id abKcMJ153ihU; Mon, 29 May 2017 09:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 476951600B8; Mon, 29 May 2017 09:37:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id SsjrS5WulKAt; Mon, 29 May 2017 09:37:16 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.9] (unknown [47.153.188.248]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 26DEB1600A7; Mon, 29 May 2017 09:37:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <60D5F708-B068-4D27-8FC5-F73F6AB1C44D@raeburn.org> Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:215310 Archived-At: Ken Raeburn wrote: > And I wouldn=E2=80=99t describe Guile=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9CELF everywhere= =E2=80=9D approach as entirely platform-neutral. That's correct. It's more portable than what Emacs currently does, but it= 's less=20 portable than saving state in .elc format. > Even saving just the Lisp state as with =E2=80=9Cdumped.elc=E2=80=9D, I= think there could be state from the environment or build options that va= ries across distributions. Yes, quite true. Even with "dumped .elc" or with any of the other methods= =20 proposed, it would be quite difficult to make the saved state portable to= any=20 platform. That kind of portability should not be our goal. > If we want standardized object/executable format specifically for the p= reloaded environment, perhaps using the native format by way of the C com= piler is a better choice. I think this may have come up in the discussio= n before. The big loss there is the ability to create a new saved enviro= nment without having a C compiler handy, but it seems like a thing few pe= ople are likely to want to do, and even fewer non-developers who might no= t be able to install a compiler. Yes, this is my preferred solution too; I was the one who made that sugge= stion.=20 Although Eli didn't like the idea at the time, perhaps there will come a = day=20 when we revisit it. It should be faster than even Guile's ELF-based loadi= ng,=20 which is already plenty fast.