From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Emacs localization (Re: Why emacs have not native language menu) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:50:25 +0900 Message-ID: <36CC139D-16DC-4D8E-B69A-D16BD3CE385E@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> References: <46A49912.9030203@luxdo.jp> <7056BAE9-002B-46B7-A60A-9EDE375392EE@mx6.tiki.ne.jp> <18085.18857.593591.502885@kahikatea.snap.net.nz> <1185263310.787881.72970@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1185288656 15756 80.91.229.12 (24 Jul 2007 14:50:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:50:56 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 24 16:50:54 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IDLiw-0002mI-DI for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:50:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDLiv-0006nL-Uv for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:50:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IDLih-0006mu-4g for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:50:39 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IDLie-0006mC-MX for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:50:38 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDLie-0006m7-Cg for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:50:36 -0400 Original-Received: from smtp10.tiki.ne.jp ([218.40.30.107]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IDLid-0007ij-GR for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:50:36 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.11.4] (pl497.nas934.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp [210.136.197.241]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp10.tiki.ne.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6OEoU4B086728 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:50:31 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from fusion@mx6.tiki.ne.jp) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-detected-kernel: FreeBSD 5.3-5.4 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:45963 Archived-At: On 24 juil. 07, at 23:30, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > IOW, the difficulties are not in the external docs, they are in the > internal doc strings, menus, tooltips, and various features that use > those internal documentation resources for their implementation. > >> So I think the actual scope of the work is actually much smaller than >> most people imagine. > > You are wrong thinking that. I will try to explain why in a separate > message. Here, I am strictly talking in terms of actual localization work. As you say the manual is huge (and sometimes poorly written, but this is yet a different issue), but the UI (I mean all the visible strings like menus, interactive help etc) is a much smaller set _if_ we consider the UI in a modular way (which it is in a way since we deal with modes). At least, that is my understanding. I am _not_ talking about the system itself, since I have no way to estimate how hard a task that would be. But I can see that just like most big software packages, creating such a system is quite en endeavor. > Then we are out of luck, for the time being, because the most > important part of the job is to design and implement the > infrastructure required for making Emacs localization possible. I just needed a good reason to start learning emacs lisp... > However, you can still volunteer to translate the manual. That > doesn't need almost any infrastructure changes, so as soon as a single > translation exists, the localized manuals can be made available to > users. I am already a member of the translation effort to French (along with other localization projects) but I find translating the manual of a non localized application a waste of time in general, especially in the case of emacs where _most_ of the important stuff _cannot_ currently be localized Jean-Christophe Helary