From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: (special-mode-map): Delete binding for `z'. Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 19:38:28 -0700 Message-ID: <363C856A8EDB4545897D760AD952E828@us.oracle.com> References: <87oblp2nfr.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1346553532 13006 80.91.229.3 (2 Sep 2012 02:38:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 02:38:52 +0000 (UTC) To: , Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 02 04:38:54 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1T805K-0001eC-0T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2012 04:38:50 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41028 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T805H-00013o-CS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 22:38:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42320) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T805E-00013U-Gp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 22:38:45 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T805D-0002fV-HF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 22:38:44 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com ([148.87.113.117]:29861) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1T805B-0002f0-5h; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 22:38:41 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id q822cc7d031589 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 2 Sep 2012 02:38:39 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id q822ccuW014989 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 2 Sep 2012 02:38:38 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt115.oracle.com (abhmt115.oracle.com [141.146.116.67]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id q822cb1C008679; Sat, 1 Sep 2012 21:38:38 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 01 Sep 2012 19:38:37 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87oblp2nfr.fsf@gnu.org> Thread-Index: Ac2IrtfPp/DAtiG3RFaaGwdjptkNCQAAUy8w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-Received-From: 148.87.113.117 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:152944 Archived-At: > What is the rationale for this change? Not needed? Error prone? Could be used for something more useful/appropriate? This was the reason RMS gave (bug thread #12311): I just discovered why some of the Dired buffers I always keep occasionally disappear. It is because the binding of z in special-mode-map makes it so easy to kill them. I just got rid of that binding in my .emacs, but I think that binding is a bad idea. Not all the buffers in special modes ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ are things people don't mind deleting, and this key can cause ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ annoyance if typed by accident. > I use this all the time in buffers like *Help*, Why bother to kill *Help*? Why do that rather than `q'? > *Dired* &c. What am I supposed to use instead? C-u q? Sure, why not? Or `q' if you don't need to kill it. Or `C-x v' if you want to replace it. You want to kill Dired but you don't want to use `C-u q'. OK, so bind `z' to killing once again if you want to. Or is it about other special-mode buffers? That's the useful question, to me. I would say forget about *Help* (which doesn't need to be killed) and Dired (which you sometimes don't want to kill). But are there special-mode buffers where `z' killing the buffer is really useful? If so, then maybe the fix was too heavy-handed. > How is a ding more valuable than a useful behavior? Killing the buffer is not the only or the most useful behavior `z' could have in Dired. Dired is a rich mode with lots of keys already taken and with plenty of commands that could be bound to keys. Whether `z' should be bound to killing the buffer in `special-mode-map' is a different question. RMS's fix was to remove that binding. I argued instead that Dired should not inherit from `special-mode-map' - it should just define the few keys from `s-m-m' that it needs. The question really is whether the binding of `z' makes sense for special modes in general (e.g., beyond *Help* and Dired). RMS apparently thinks not. But the problem (annoyance) he reported was really about Dired. [Followup should really be in the bug thread, BTW. Moving it here means people can miss that discussion: http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=12311.]