From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: dash.el [was: Re: Imports / inclusion of s.el into Emacs] Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 02:12:08 +0900 Message-ID: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="124815"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Phillip Lord , joostkremers@fastmail.fm, rms@gnu.org, Emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Alfred M. Szmidt" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 11 19:12:58 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jYBz7-000WKe-07 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 19:12:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60122 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYBz6-00065x-0E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 13:12:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60442) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYByR-0005Eg-MR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 13:12:15 -0400 Original-Received: from pv50p00im-ztdg10021801.me.com ([17.58.6.56]:40133) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYByQ-0001Xm-Nm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 11 May 2020 13:12:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=icloud.com; s=1a1hai; t=1589217131; bh=Zmjmn2hm00nyaZXEaiM7IJKbqb0DTCcj9aPYkYRPoFY=; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Date:Message-Id:To; b=sOe1QkDM/Ctu/jmNwS0FfBmgg9iIaZzHf/wgZR8V/XVpL1gm9oPUi7aXDFi3aTfGB qYCdhLcfesk65uW6qDGb/2Ds8mRZIn80Rv9utxhKVtTNhRsbpcepH2ijgBjvlJJLjS bqhUXxyVYmiIJrVMBWiGnwMnqiiQXJVAVEgJDZf6Gkoi4mJ58AQ91ndeux1QECikAe 4m0fq+dOEcUm4PBXnvwP71HE13aWJXw8cvEYQJIhYUQoB3L8BOfTYpnOw0UtBYqdgH JhYItSlquvF0zaMLNuHYTT7JIe2VWJ49Qxv5xyOCMmMlP5mJ7qTqdfHcltxrFcT9MD KWBx3KxvjnXkQ== Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] (unknown [1.230.108.64]) by pv50p00im-ztdg10021801.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4C88F3604B1; Mon, 11 May 2020 17:12:11 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17E262) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.216, 18.0.676 definitions=2020-05-11_08:2020-05-11, 2020-05-11 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-2002250000 definitions=main-2005110135 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=17.58.6.56; envelope-from=pcr910303@icloud.com; helo=pv50p00im-ztdg10021801.me.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/11 13:12:12 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.979, KHOP_DYNAMIC=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249833 Archived-At: > 2020. 5. 12. =EC=98=A4=EC=A0=84 1:42, Alfred M. Szmidt =EC=9E= =91=EC=84=B1: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF >>=20 >> This is just a matter of following the good practises that already >> exist in Emacs. It would be a bad idea to start making a mess, and >> then encouraging this mess to become larger. >=20 > Posited on s.el being a mess, which neither it, nor dash.el is. They are= > both nice APIs that are nice to use. >=20 > In isolation these libraries do not create a mess, and it was never > claimed that they are so. The issue is making them part of > Emacs/ELPA, thus encouraging people to start using non-standard Emacs > Lisp conventions in Emacs. _That_ would be the mess. >=20 > I really urge people to carefully read what people have written to > minimize these type of misunderstandings. >=20 > I did manage to drop a dash.el dependency form one of my libraries and > replace it with seq.el. That worked because it was close to a drop > in. But people have already chosen to work with dash, or s, or f, even > though it means adding a dependency because they are nice. >=20 > Would you like to suggest which parts of those libraries are nice in > your opinon so that they could maybe be added to Emacs, following > normal Emacs conventions? There was a long, long controversial thread about this. (And I think this th= read is a branch of it?) All of this discussion started about having some more string functions and r= enaming some of them so that people didn=E2=80=99t need to use s.el.=20 FWIW, nobody asked to add it in Emacs core. The only request was to add it i= n ELPA, which looks like everybody has a different idea of what it is. (I th= ought of it as a blessed package repo, but apparently a lot of people here t= hinks that it=E2=80=99s an extension to Emacs.)