From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Cl=c3=a9ment_Pit-Claudel?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Ctrl-[ ? Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 09:26:54 -0400 Message-ID: <3580dbb9-73a8-d26a-5466-5799e3726c34@gmail.com> References: <08AC8151-5911-40FA-8B20-818B839D00AB@traduction-libre.org> <6F55E018-B15E-42B0-8794-21F55BBA23D3@traduction-libre.org> <34E3289C-10EE-4A23-AEE4-80D984DB2EDE@gnu.org> <6A538FF9-94C8-491D-B1B9-5C0D09FE7C39@acm.org> <838suesw93.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="265861"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jun 06 15:28:33 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hYsRU-00170e-Q7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 15:28:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60578 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYsQu-0003z1-IO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 09:27:56 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39291) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYsQ0-0003xB-6H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 09:27:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYsPy-0002xW-W7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 09:27:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]:34514) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hYsPy-0002me-MJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 09:26:58 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id m29so2629648qtu.1 for ; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 06:26:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lUzX+q82w3U7qS5sk/3PiN28DcDdXfNYkDI2JKiAfgY=; b=pSMilbKLERvZGorMMfV8K4Itmu/UGrWa7PCcN7CyRTfvtlYfhzRwDxvxeybERSISQI FqZoF/+cWunAaSFT8FaEFC5RRVdAJMf4C+i1OHFFbmTQ/KEtLbxz7rsfykApbSGK3UnZ T+F00+rfjTVhj07gokFcz6zHU/QiDCI8ZgBCuhg1IIB2UrV3ChWI5+ytcHGQ7nHEi4jJ IL/gVKlzcN8iBAvHZBUjmD4RH90QbuGmsJ6fxf3kQFEz/Il/SzfS3qeXdnBLMF8veMIa xbKlb7Jkxf1XMC1Q3oArEX+TLg71trMhicsGxBUd+NmEAWwceog8P1OcI9qbSCmxkViX Uxaw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=lUzX+q82w3U7qS5sk/3PiN28DcDdXfNYkDI2JKiAfgY=; b=pSCy/sB6pesN70Px0tKaaRcjhVczpRlYmG4S14jRqEQxnOxqTp8grYxbfIkVn06Ykm pFjzZDnxmqlGP+YOUfWLvZog7dIki0VRiertOkLou1AyusEClyMj3Aa6ZtIZ684QPvgs TVi/EIjuc2gRzfr6mx2LvLA8LEUSEv4m2dHLx1MLlD2uRc1DGKsTpNJUE1vwG17VP2Fk a1DCVAwBx2qvvrtUTLEPE4GmYPwoBIcHjyVIQYixZxkTfIiD/y8MtlHz+9IpWykW4hiD 2tLXHGzbzjV/wPgbd4tr08gmcY4klqdBNyAO2NdCf+EJaRt7D0+J5rIpgyi4XYeGjv+o +/dg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVPA6EzMbvY9xVJKypUHVS7xvl/8xXdU+keHRJNLFgsCtMCxJIH bLA2UclGMGbivofymhCPH2f3HFKO X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzunIYlnBAk8K7DuyknUM71wzea/kAoUhx0KZgfGiAblxwb23ePaHQqRFb0nRisjRIs3XgPyQ== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:9214:: with SMTP id a20mr22543435qva.195.1559827616221; Thu, 06 Jun 2019 06:26:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?IPv6:2601:184:4180:66e7:7daf:bcaa:4202:32c? ([2601:184:4180:66e7:7daf:bcaa:4202:32c]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id w30sm1254216qtb.28.2019.06.06.06.26.55 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 06 Jun 2019 06:26:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <838suesw93.fsf@gnu.org> Content-Language: en-GB X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4864:20::831 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:237278 Archived-At: On 2019-06-06 09:01, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Mattias Engdegård >> Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2019 14:44:31 +0200 >> Cc: Emacs developers , >> Jean-Christophe Helary >> >> 6 juni 2019 kl. 12.12 skrev Eli Zaretskii : >>> >>> It isn't hardcoded in Emacs, it' "hardcoded" in the way the OS produces character codes when you type keys on the keyboard. C-[ produces ESC for the same reason C-i produces TAB and C-j produces RET: these keys emit the same codes as the corresponding Ctrl sequences. >> >> The above is true when Emacs is running in a terminal. Otherwise, Emacs has code to emulate that behaviour (make_ctrl_char), so that we can enjoy a whiff of early 1960s bit-paired keyboards. And this does appear to be hard-coded, in the sense that it cannot be disabled. > > Why is it useful to have different behavior on GUI and TTY frames? It's not so much that it's useful to have different behavior; rather, there are limitations that only TTY frames suffer from, and if you mostly or always use GUI frames, it's nice not to suffer from these limitations. For example in my day to day work I use variable-pitch faces, different font sizes, highlighting in ore colors than my terminal can display, svg support, and, most relevant to the discussion above, keybindings that gnome-terminal doesn't support, such as C-S-> and C-S-< (the location of these keys was convenient, and I knew I wouldn't need the corresponding functions often in TTY frames). So I guess keeping a consistent experience in TTY and GUI frames isn't as important for me as improving the experience in GUI frames. (I'm not claiming that Enacs' defaults should diverge between TTY and GUI; just that there are use cases for different behavior on GUI and TTY frames)