From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#21746: 24.5; purpose of dired-keep-marker-copy? Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 14:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <33f6a584-df3d-48e1-9db1-52d6aa11e5b8@default> References: <36360.86247.586145.22058@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <69182d70-1f68-4105-9f24-7bbef43e7ecb@default> <40607.80402.459249.22058@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <987d58d9-30d3-4067-a0ae-7a7722a3f2fb@default> <56535.83174.772198.22058@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <32c7e678-352f-4e5d-86cf-768a9c482386@default> <61261.98098.661987.22059@gargle.gargle.HOWL> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445722286 15595 80.91.229.3 (24 Oct 2015 21:31:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:31:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Andreas Schwab , 21746@debbugs.gnu.org To: Roland Winkler Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 24 23:31:12 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zq6P8-0008JD-UP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Oct 2015 23:31:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45739 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zq6P8-0007zg-0Q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:31:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47709) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zq6P3-0007zb-QV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:31:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zq6P0-0003Mq-IC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:31:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:46412) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zq6P0-0003Mm-E7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:31:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zq6P0-0002Vk-36 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:31:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:31:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 21746 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 21746-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B21746.14457222579640 (code B ref 21746); Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:31:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 21746) by debbugs.gnu.org; 24 Oct 2015 21:30:57 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37120 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zq6Ov-0002VQ-AZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:30:57 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:31906) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Zq6Ob-0002Ux-0S for 21746@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 24 Oct 2015 17:30:56 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t9OLUZPC003238 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:30:36 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t9OLUZuj012030 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:30:35 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0016.oracle.com (abhmp0016.oracle.com [141.146.116.22]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t9OLUYvr020705; Sat, 24 Oct 2015 21:30:34 GMT In-Reply-To: <61261.98098.661987.22059@gargle.gargle.HOWL> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:108001 Archived-At: > I know that there are various ways to > get rid of the C's when copying files in dired. But nobody showed > why they are useful in the first place in some common usage scenario > justifying the current default. I did. But you apparently don't want to recognize this use as being useful. I'll repeat it, just in case you didn't hear it: To distinguish/identify the files that were copied. And to do so in a way that they can be further acted on in Dired. IOW, in a Dired-consistent way. Both parts of this are useful: (1) easily see which were copied and (2) easily act on them or on any subset of them. #2 requires #1, but #1 is useful on its own. How else could Dired distinguish the copied files? That is, what are the alternatives? We can imagine a few: 1. Highlight their lines in some way. Reasonable. And with similar behavior needs: users need a way to remove the highlighting. And some might find the higlighting annoying. But they could of course customize its face to remove its effect. 2. Use `*' instead of `C'. Confusion with other, pre-existing `*' marks - no distinction. Likewise, for `D'. 3. List the copied files only in a separate log buffer. You can probably come up with some additional ways. None of these give you the ability to do something with just those files or a subset of them. For any proposal you might make, you would need to include some way to (a) get the list of copied files, (b) perhaps selectively edit it, and then (c) act on the remaining files in that list. I.e., you need some way to let users act on any subset of those files. > Therefore=20 "Therefore"? Because no one has shown how `C' marking is useful? See above. > I think that the default of dired-keep-marker-copy should be > changed to nil: >=20 > - The C's are irritating and inconsistent: >=20 > The marks `*' and `D' indicate that an action _will be_ performed > on certain files. The C's indicate that an action _has been_ > performed. Again, `*' and `D' do _not at all_ indicate that any action _will be_ performed on the marked files. They indicate that you _can_ act on them. Nothing more than that. And `C' indicates the same thing: you can, with one command/key, change `C' to `*' or `D', putting all of those files in the same situation as your beloved (even if untrue) "_will be_ performed" situation. That's the point of `C' marking: to _indicate_ the copied files. Not marking the copied files gives you NO way to choose them for subsequent action. If they are not marked (or equivalent) then you cannot distinguish them - they do not stand out from the rest. > - There is no future action associated with the C's (nor has anybody > shown that this would be desirable) On the contrary. There are a great many future actions that you can perform on the files marked with `C' (by changing `C' to `*' or `D'). But you certainly cannot do anything to that set of files (or to a subset) if you cannot distinguish it. Not identifying the copied files apparently irritates you less, but it does not help anyone do anything with them. It is _not_ that it would always be desirable to do something additional with all of the files marked `C' (see your claim that no one has shown that that is desirable). That's part of the point: no such hard-coded behavior is appropriate. What is appropriate is to _be able_ to perform _any_ Dired action on _any_ of those files (and not only on all of them). Prerequisites for this ability are (1) being able to distinguish the copied files and (2) being able to choose which of them, if any, to act on in some other way. It sounds to me like you should just customize `dired-keep-marker-copy' to nil for yourself. I see no good argument for changing the default value. Your only reason to use `nil' is a personal one: you are irritated by the marks.