From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nikolai Weibull Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Differences between Org-Mode and Hyperbole Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 14:09:52 +0200 Message-ID: <33B24DA4-84A5-4459-9275-ABFB0A3EDA35@gmail.com> References: <87h9cdmj6t.fsf@delle7240.chemeng.ucl.ac.uk> <87eg7f13re.fsf@delle7240.chemeng.ucl.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1467897047 6633 80.91.229.3 (7 Jul 2016 13:10:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2016 13:10:47 +0000 (UTC) Cc: kaushal.modi@gmail.com, Nikolai Weibull , rswgnu@gmail.com, e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 07 15:10:41 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bL94g-0005KZ-6k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2016 15:10:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39791 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bL94c-0004KQ-05 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2016 09:10:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41471) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bL880-0004tJ-7Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:10:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bL87w-0005PC-W9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:10:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x229.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::229]:33322) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bL87w-0005P7-J7; Thu, 07 Jul 2016 08:09:56 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x229.google.com with SMTP id f6so9994804lfg.0; Thu, 07 Jul 2016 05:09:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=PeerHPqQzNXL3p2//XQPaXLEggiFTPCjq8G1UP1t5wA=; b=IHns2UJQdYVmr5bYOOAA5hFThz0SOYtvnVJVI5KRIuGrhfxNxWfMde2siS0SmNJPRB bByJD7V5mzeRw40U1+198PleI60Br0IUVbkzA+ATlNFkhoeeXF4q7ga6s0VDQqTx61sE G2OuXlKAlXihop+3BVq4cBXdGJdFsWvzwU6iAauOTuPGr2LdYliSYlQFDNS9WcrF9xO5 LL7TcWg4CQumygHiRu4/1cG8nHB/MK4ZtsYXIFGzAi4UM34NCLph1bSMd2VVUv8lYNIa nWcQujGnsV4hYnbxyEENDAXOUjVN4yk0OhH8YTt3Q7rzUsFejbyIwpU0JoyGo05xHFwa Kurw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=PeerHPqQzNXL3p2//XQPaXLEggiFTPCjq8G1UP1t5wA=; b=YCkggjkOUpksoEKVgla0qaPdtqBQb7QEQGhKDknd/JAqW3A6mtYtXQm+6paL/uznc3 xC/FQ96RN0hukVSUXWJhshfn8VfcFhsRdNOMHHZPeyTUGfGbQjt5tDS5x3AWQGPearo1 T3bkmQD8ayWveXqOp499tga9X9gtn9PZb8nJ1lyQQNXY4blqiuU7Ax0Cv/kLJxhFNthF Je+sTw9JviKmGXZcOjDAb5yoratNzwSZ4j4BrOuub+tWMs4TmChYnU63OHWekJZ/ofmj mw8r6F+v1nhn7TTBaA6fnUNjwjJOm9l1WydWs7RWKs3c6oaA/xnqBMehVtHIPScMH5+V fqMw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJ2fYXeHCxRfe+js26n0BB3XtFJb2IyGDb34Mfp+TbWQvVotw7FpCToO//X4hUXtQ== X-Received: by 10.25.76.195 with SMTP id z186mr6111272lfa.155.1467893395415; Thu, 07 Jul 2016 05:09:55 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [100.81.85.29] (m83-185-245-29.cust.tele2.se. [83.185.245.29]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h83sm1796035lji.28.2016.07.07.05.09.53 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 07 Jul 2016 05:09:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13F69) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::229 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 07 Jul 2016 09:09:17 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:205317 Archived-At: > On Jul 7, 2016, at 00:30, Richard Stallman wrote: >=20 > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] >=20 >>> Why would you want to convert a todo list into HTML or PDF? >>> I just don't see the utility. >=20 >> To share it with others in paper form. >=20 > I have never wanted to do that with my todo lists. > I just don't see the utility of doing it. In my work, I=E2=80=99be been asked to report on progress and to have someth= ing to show and further discussion, I=E2=80=99ve used printouts of org buffe= rs. In all honesty, this could have been done with equal effect as a text fi= le. I wasn=E2=80=99t arguing for or against anything, just stating an =E2=80= =9Caccidental=E2=80=9D use case.=20 > If you find it useful, by all means do it. > I am not arguing that you shouldn't be able to do this, > or that Emacs shouldn't facilitate it. > If you are trying to argue with me about that, you're missing the point. I am not. > Rather, I am an example of many users (I'm sure we are many) who don't > want to print out our todo lists, and the point is this: with us, > building a mode for editing todo lists on top of something for > printing out formatted files is unnatural. Unnatural is hardly the right choice of word.=20 > I think the todo editing features should be presented as someting > simple and self-contained. I agree. Org mode is far too many things at once and it=E2=80=99s very diffi= cult to get a grip on what everything it includes is useful for. As an examp= le, there are (as far as I am aware, there may be more) eight ways of catego= rizing =E2=80=9Citems=E2=80=9D (=E2=80=9Cto dos=E2=80=9D) in Org mode. File,= heading, category, todo state, tags, and priority, and also sub-items and c= heck lists. This gives the user great freedom in how they organize their tas= ks, at a rather large cost of making it hard for even a seasoned user to fig= ure out a good workflow. And that=E2=80=99s just categorization. Then there=E2= =80=99s all the different ways of filtering your items and the agenda and al= l its various concepts to actually manage the chaos (which doesn=E2=80=99t w= ork very well, at least for me). I would very much appreciate something simp= ler, but at least I can get org mode to do most of what I currently know tha= t I want it to do.=20