#+STARTUP: showstars

#+STARTUP: showstars

[Enda]

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With #+STARTUP: hidestars, the output looks nice in Emacs org-mode but
not otherwise, can there be an option where a line beginning with a
space and a star is like two stars with the hidestars option and a
line beginning with two spaces and a star is like three stars (it
could be called #+STARTUP: showstars (and even enabled by default))


Best wishes,

Enda

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Re: #+STARTUP: showstars

[Nick Dokos]

Enda <enda_k2@yahoo.com> wrote:


> With #+STARTUP: hidestars, the output looks nice in Emacs org-mode but
> not otherwise, can there be an option where a line beginning with a
> space and a star is like two stars with the hidestars option and a
> line beginning with two spaces and a star is like three stars (it
> could be called #+STARTUP: showstars (and even enabled by default))
> 

What do you mean by "otherwise"? Something like fundamental mode? Or
when you cat the file? If the former, all I can suggest is to enable
org-mode in the buffer. If the latter, try exporting to ascii.

In any case, such an option would require major changes to the code, I
believe.  It's unlikely to be implemented.

Nick

PS My opinion only, and bear in mind I'm not a maintainer.

Re: #+STARTUP: showstars

[Enda]

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Otherwise is like in vi, the additional stars (like **, opposed to <SPACE>*) are too noisy, and since I do not want to see them whether it is in org-mode or in vi, etc, so I wondered was there a way to have the file like

* first level heading

 * second level heading
   * third level heading

highlighted like in hidestars except there would be no stars to hide.


Best wishes,

Enda



________________________________
 From: Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>
To: Enda <enda_k2@yahoo.com> 
Cc: "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> 
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [O] #+STARTUP: showstars
 
Enda <enda_k2@yahoo.com> wrote:


> With #+STARTUP: hidestars, the output looks nice in Emacs org-mode but
> not otherwise, can there be an option where a line beginning with a
> space and a star is like two stars with the hidestars option and a
> line beginning with two spaces and a star is like three stars (it
> could be called #+STARTUP: showstars (and even enabled by default))
> 

What do you mean by "otherwise"? Something like fundamental mode? Or
when you cat the file? If the former, all I can suggest is to enable
org-mode in the buffer. If the latter, try exporting to ascii.

In any case, such an option would require major changes to the code, I
believe.  It's unlikely to be implemented.

Nick

PS My opinion only, and bear in mind I'm not a maintainer.

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Re: #+STARTUP: showstars

[Yagnesh Raghava Yakkala]

Hello Enda,

Enda <enda_k2@yahoo.com> writes:

> Otherwise is like in vi, the additional stars (like **, opposed to
> <SPACE>*) are too noisy, and since I do not want to see them whether
> it is in org-mode or in vi, etc, so I wondered was there a way to have
> the file like
>
> * first level heading
>  * second level heading
>    * third level heading

are you looking for org-indent-mode.?

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(add-hook 'org-mode-hook
          (lambda ()
            (org-indent-mode 1)))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

--
YYR

Re: #+STARTUP: showstars (#+STARTUP: showlaststar)

[Enda]

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I just saw that #+STARTUP: showstars is the opposite of #+STARTUP: hidestars, #+STARTUP: showlaststar would have been a more appropriate subject header.

org-indent-mode can be activated using #+STARTUP: indent according to http://orgmode.org/manual/Clean-view.html, however in the same page I see that " All headline
stars but the last one are made invisible using the org-hide face", however I want there to be no actual stars except the last and then org-mode using the right color for each heading like:

* first heading

<SPACE>* second heading
<SPACE><SPACE>* third heading

Best wishes,

Enda



________________________________
 From: Yagnesh Raghava Yakkala <hi@yagnesh.org>
To: Enda <enda_k2@yahoo.com> 
Cc: "nicholas.dokos@hp.com" <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>; "emacs-orgmode@gnu.org" <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org> 
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: #+STARTUP: showstars
 

Hello Enda,

Enda <enda_k2@yahoo.com> writes:

> Otherwise is like in vi, the additional stars (like **, opposed to
> <SPACE>*) are too noisy, and since I do not want to see them whether
> it is in org-mode or in vi, etc, so I wondered was there a way to have
> the file like
>
> * first level heading
>  * second level heading
>    * third level heading

are you looking for org-indent-mode.?

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
(add-hook 'org-mode-hook
          (lambda ()
            (org-indent-mode 1)))
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

--
YYR

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Re: #+STARTUP: showstars

[Nick Dokos]

Yagnesh Raghava Yakkala <hi@yagnesh.org> wrote:

> 
> Hello Enda,
> 
> Enda <enda_k2@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> > Otherwise is like in vi, the additional stars (like **, opposed to
> > <SPACE>*) are too noisy, and since I do not want to see them whether
> > it is in org-mode or in vi, etc, so I wondered was there a way to have
> > the file like
> >
> > * first level heading
> > =C2=A0* second level heading
> > =C2=A0=C2=A0 * third level heading
> 
> are you looking for org-indent-mode.?
> 
> (add-hook 'org-mode-hook
>           (lambda ()
>             (org-indent-mode 1)))
> 

I may be putting words into the OP's mouth, but I don't think he is
looking for org-indent-mode: the multiple asterisks would be there,
whether org-indent-mode is on or off (and it would not affect how the
file is seen in vi, to use his example). I think he is looking for
something that does not exist.

But the suggestion of exporting to ascii (and editing that in vi) has
not been rejected (yet), so that may be a way forward.

Nick

Re: #+STARTUP: showstars (#+STARTUP: showlaststar)

[Enda]

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I might want to edit the file where Emacs is not installed, so I do not want to be exporting to ascii.


Best wishes,

Enda




________________________________
 From: Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>

But the suggestion of exporting to ascii (and editing that in vi) has
not been rejected (yet), so that may be a way forward.

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Re: #+STARTUP: showstars (#+STARTUP: showlaststar)

[Nick Dokos]

Enda <enda_k2@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I might want to edit the file where Emacs is not installed, so I do not want to be exporting to ascii.
> 

Then you have to live with the stars.

Nick

> Best wishes,
> 
> Enda
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>
> 
> But the suggestion of exporting to ascii (and editing that in vi) has
> not been rejected (yet), so that may be a way forward.
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Alternatives:
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------

Re: #+STARTUP: showstars (#+STARTUP: showlaststar)

[Bastien]

Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:

> Then you have to live with the stars.

I think it is awesome to live with the stars.

:)

-- 
 Bastien

Re: #+STARTUP: showstars (#+STARTUP: showlaststar)

[Sebastien Vauban]

Bastien wrote:
> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos-VXdhtT5mjnY@public.gmane.org> writes:
>
>> Then you have to live with the stars.
>
> I think it is awesome to live with the stars.
>
> :)

Ask Carsten!

Best regards,
  Seb

-- 
Sebastien Vauban

Re: #+STARTUP: showstars (#+STARTUP: showlaststar)

[Nick Dokos]

Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> wrote:

> Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> writes:
> 
> > Then you have to live with the stars.
> 
> I think it is awesome to live with the stars.
> 
> :)
> 
> -- 
>  Bastien
> 

Not sure why, but I seem to be getting copies of old mail that I'm
pretty sure I have seen before (e.g. the above from Friday
2012-05-25). According to the headers, it seems to have bounced around
noon.org for a week:

,----
| ...
| Received: from noon.org (noon.org [192.220.74.114])
|	  by g1t0024.austin.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91337402A
|	  for <nicholas.dokos@hp.com>; Fri,  1 Jun 2012 03:45:22 +0000 (UTC)
| Received: (qmail 1624 invoked by uid 19058); 1 Jun 2012 03:45:16 -0000
| MBOX-Line: From emacs-orgmode-bounces+fhew=noon.org@gnu.org Fri May 25 23:20:38 2012
| Received: (qmail 7112 invoked by uid 19058); 25 May 2012 23:20:37 -0000
| Received: from unknown (HELO lists.gnu.org) ([208.118.235.17])
|           (envelope-sender <emacs-orgmode-bounces+fhew=noon.org@gnu.org>)
|           by 192.220.74.114 (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP
|           for <fhew@noon.org>; 25 May 2012 23:20:37 -0000
| Received: from localhost ([::1]:42497 helo=lists.gnu.org)
| 	by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71)
| 	(envelope-from <emacs-orgmode-bounces+fhew=noon.org@gnu.org>)
| 	id 1SY3oD-0001Io-7S
| 	for fhew@noon.org; Fri, 25 May 2012 19:20:37 -0400
| ...
`----

Just fyi (and in case fhew@noon.org is listening)...

Nick

PS. Bastien, you are star-struck ;-)

Re: #+STARTUP: showstars

[Mark E. Shoulson]

Enda <enda_k2@yahoo.com> writes:
>>> Otherwise is like in vi, the additional stars (like **, opposed to
>>> <SPACE>*) are too noisy, and since I do not want to see them whether
>>> it is in org-mode or in vi, etc, so I wondered was there a way to have
>>> the file like
>>>
>>> * first level heading
>>> =C2=A0* second level heading
>>> =C2=A0=C2=A0 * third level heading
>>
There seems to be some confusion getting across.  As I understand it, 
this is what the OP is after:

Problem: doesn't like the look of multiple *s for headline; prefers the 
look of hidestars-mode.

Furthermore, hidestars isn't good enough, because Enda wants the file 
*really to be like that*, without the stars there at all, so that it 
still looks good when being edited in vi or something.  It needs to look 
like hidestars *all the time*, even outside of org, to avoid seeing the 
****s.

OP's requested fix: change the syntax so that a line which begins with N 
spaces followed by a star and then more spaces after that acts as if the 
N spaces at the beginning were stars.  That is, <space><space>*<space> 
at the start of the line should be a third-level headline, as if it 
started with ***.

OP, please let me know if I'm stating your position correctly.

Problem with requested fix: In addition to being a pretty major change 
to start with, it also already conflicts with established usage.  A line 
that starts with spaces and then a star-space is considered an item in a 
plain list.  Using *s for plain lists is discouraged, because of the 
potential confusion with headlines if there are no spaces before it, but 
it is permitted (and if it could have been dropped it would have been 
already).  So, no, this isn't going to happen.

I _guess_ one could try defining something like a NO-BREAK-SPACE 
character to behave like a star at the beginning of the line when it 
comes to determining headlines, so you basically have a character that 
*looks* blank you can use for the non-final stars, but that would also 
be a pretty enormous change and I don't see it looking like a good move 
either.

I hope that accurately portrays the request (and responses thereto).

~mark

Re: #+STARTUP: showstars

[Bastien]

Hi Mark,

"Mark E. Shoulson" <mark@kli.org> writes:

> Furthermore, hidestars isn't good enough, because Enda wants the file
> *really to be like that*, without the stars there at all, so that it still
> looks good when being edited in vi or something.

Thanks for taking the time to state Enda's position more clearly.

The stars will stay here.  

Based from this, I guess Vi(m) can be clever enough to hide them.

Best,

-- 
 Bastien

Re: #+STARTUP: showstars

[Michael Brand]

Hi Bastien

On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 12:08 AM, Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> wrote:
> Based from this, I guess Vi(m) can be clever enough to hide them.

I also assume yes. But then notably tools that list file contents
prefixed like "grep" and "nl", but also non-prefixed like "cat",
"more", "less" etc. still don't. Of course, for the latter one could
write a one line filter command. But one that suits also "grep" and
"nl" is impossible. And I don't want to have to use this filter and to
have it with me all times. My compromise for my private Org files is
to be forced to use fileconversion when an Org mode is available. Not
a big deal because I can't use Emacs productively without
customization anyway.

Michael

Re: #+STARTUP: showstars

[Michael Brand]

Hi all

On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 10:57 PM, Mark E. Shoulson <mark@kli.org> wrote:
> OP's requested fix: change the syntax so that a line which begins with N
> spaces followed by a star and then more spaces after that acts as if the N
> spaces at the beginning were stars.  That is, <space><space>*<space> at the
> start of the line should be a third-level headline, as if it started with
> ***.

It seems that Org fileconversion, which does exactly this with
hidestarsfile and which I announced on the list here with four posts
spread over February, did not yet get through the noise. Even though I
asked some questions then. :-(

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/51981

> I _guess_ one could try defining something like a NO-BREAK-SPACE character
> to behave like a star at the beginning of the line when it comes to
> determining headlines, so you basically have a character that *looks* blank
> you can use for the non-final stars,

This is a nice idea and I just added it to fileconversion 0.6 as
nbspstarsfile. With the small generalization of fileconversion I did
some time ago to cover also markdown headlines (Peter Salazar, any
feedback?) it was very easy to extend it also to nbspstarsfile:

http://orgmode.org/worg/org-hacks.html#fileconversion

For the #+STARTUP keyword now nbspstarsfile is used in favor of
showstars because I think it aligns better with the already existing
hidestars, hidestarsfile and markdownstarsfile.

Michael