From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Unuseful keybindings Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 08:55:19 -0800 Message-ID: <335962219EEB441492591386F8B9DCBE@us.oracle.com> References: <87sj73qzvl.fsf@gmail.com> <87623zquvw.fsf@gmail.com><87ip7zdud3.fsf@gmail.com> <87ehiiu5x7.fsf@gnu.org><876A7D1112084247AE53F7EE42B4587C@us.oracle.com><80ehih3hlj.fsf@somewhere.org> <87pq21iwrw.fsf@yandex.ru><87AE81CEB91846DB94BC5F3B40C788DE@us.oracle.com><50D64318.5030501@yandex.ru><0FBA2D9ECA214D82B5C65E5A09E7EE19@us.oracle.com> <87fw2xglr0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1356281743 19743 80.91.229.3 (23 Dec 2012 16:55:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2012 16:55:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Juri Linkov'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 23 17:55:58 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TmoqD-0000yn-0A for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2012 17:55:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37881 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Tmopz-0004jv-2E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:55:43 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:42622) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Tmopq-0004jl-Ng for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:55:40 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Tmopp-0000eO-7w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:55:34 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:38495) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Tmopp-0000e6-1D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Dec 2012 11:55:33 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qBNGtUVe023216 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 23 Dec 2012 16:55:31 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt358.oracle.com (acsmt358.oracle.com [141.146.40.158]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qBNGtTPd014072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 23 Dec 2012 16:55:30 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt101.oracle.com (abhmt101.oracle.com [141.146.116.53]) by acsmt358.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qBNGtTXg007201; Sun, 23 Dec 2012 10:55:29 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 23 Dec 2012 08:55:29 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87fw2xglr0.fsf@mail.jurta.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac3g8WUCrnAIviTeQU2SwnDhmTprngAOJ/HA X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:155815 Archived-At: > > There is absolutely no reason for Emacs to bind `f3' and > `f4' by default. > > I have no problem rebinding `f3' to `kill-this-buffer', and `f4' to > `dired-jump' in ~/.emacs so they work like in GNU Midnight Commander > (now I use Dired instead of MC, but old habits for keys persist ;-) No, they should be UNbound. That's the point. Your proposal is a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire". These keys should not just be rebound to other non-repeatable commands (by which I mean commands that you will not typically be repeated multiple times by simply holding down the key). > But there is a worse macro keybinding `C-x q' bound to > `kbd-macro-query' that prevents using `C-x q' for more useful > commands like `quit-window'. Different issue. To avoid confusion it would be good to discuss that binding in a separate thread (though the Subject line of this one is general enough for it). > I think this problem deserves more attention than binding F-keys. No, it deserves less. It does not reflect a general problem and a problem with policy. It's truly just about a particular key binding, and it can probably be discussed and resolved without dealing with any fundamental problem. Another reason for addressing it in a separate thread. Just a suggestion. > Regarding `f11', the reason why it's a good change is to provide > compatibility in Emacs between graphical displays and text terminals. > In xterm while running `emacs -nw' typing `f11' toggles Full > Screen mode, but on graphical displays this failed until recent addition > of the `f11' keybinding. Again, a pretty weak reason. But better than what's been given so far. There are other differences between text terminal keys and graphic terminal keys. And `xterm' is not all text terminals, IIUC (please correct me if I'm mistaken).