From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#38736: 26.3; ellipsis in `*Messages*', doc of `format' etc. Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2019 08:44:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <32378b4e-d158-48d5-a48c-7afde59f5d32@default> References: <<006e6244-dd0a-46a8-8c61-36744b3216de@default>> <<83pngcv5ha.fsf@gnu.org>> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="14691"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 38736@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 25 17:46:10 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ik9nV-0003jq-UB for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Wed, 25 Dec 2019 16:44:56 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2x3brevw6f-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 25 Dec 2019 16:44:55 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id xBPGiscD007580; Wed, 25 Dec 2019 16:44:55 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83pngcv5ha.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4939.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9481 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1912250143 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9481 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1911140001 definitions=main-1912250143 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:173757 Archived-At: > > Consider trying to figure out, when looking at a message in > > `*Messages*', why a long list value shows ellipsis ("..."),=20 > > instead of showing all the elements. >=20 > How did you get the ellipsis in *Messages*? By a call (message "Result: %S" result), where the value of `result' is a long list. > I'm guessing you invoked 'eval', because this is a > feature of 'eval'. So looking for the information > in the doc string of 'message' is a somewhat strange > place. `message', like other functions, evaluates its args. And `format' for %S ends up using `prin1'. Help-wise, to get from `message' and `...' to `print-length' is a long haul. > > Following the `format-message' link, you still get no clue about > > this, but you then follow a link for `format'. There you still > > get no clue about it, but you see that %S uses `prin1'. > > > > Following the `prin1' link you finally find out that you can control > > `message's use of ellipsis using `print-length' and `print-level'. > > > > Users shouldn't have to go through all of that (and that even assumes > > that they are able to guess that following just that thread might get > > them somewhere useful). > > > > What's true for `message' is also true for `error', etc. At least > > the doc of `format' - and probably its often-used callers, such as > > `message' - should specifically mention these "print"-controlling > > (really just formatting) variables. >=20 > I don't think it's reasonable to ask to have this low-level stuff > bubble up to such high levels, which are quite far from the features > which are affected by these variables. It's not lower-level than are the details currently included about %, `, and '. =20 If it's enough for the `message' doc to just refer to `format-message' for `print-length' (eventually, after following links), then it should be enough for that doc to just refer to `format-message' for the info about %, `, and ', no? And as mentioned, % is not even mentioned in the doc for `format-message'. Why is it more important to mention % in the "higher-level" function `message' than in `format-message'? > %S is not a frequently used format, Why do you think so? It's perhaps the most common formatting string when using `message' for debugging etc., which I think is a common use case. %S is the most general formatting string, accepting any Lisp object. > I'd expect users who use %S to know already > about the ellipsis and how to control it. IOW, you expect users of `message' - which is pretty much everyone who uses Elisp - to know that. Well, I use `message' and `%S' a lot, yet I had to track it down, exactly as reported: `message' > `format-message' > `format' > %S > `prin1' > `print-length' Using %S with `message' likely doesn't give you `...' often. When it does, you can want to ask Emacs how to control that. Currently you have to dig deeply to find out.