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From: Jean-Christophe Helary <brandelune@gmail.com>
To: help-gnu-emacs <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Is Elisp really that slow?
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 10:28:00 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <3210C8E9-7A74-47D6-81A0-470948E6D09C@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <871s0yqg2i.fsf@telefonica.net>



> On May 17, 2019, at 5:50, Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es> wrote:
> 
>> so we need to offer some advantage on the first
>> try over the others to keep the users.
> 
> Emacs provides some advantages, but they are not apparent until you
> experience them. That's a problem for people grown on a culture of
> instant gratification. Emacs appeals to certain type of users who
> understand that gains require efforts.

I find that comment extremely condescending.

If "instant gratification" means finding a common ground on which one can get started right away, then I'm all for it.

Considering the state of affairs, emacs seems first to appeal to people who want to give priority to free software, at the *cost* of ease of use.

Access to free software should never be the sole privilege of "users who understand that gains require efforts". Quite the opposite.

> The really big problem is that Emacs no longer compete on areas were it used to bring the largest gains. Other editors largely surpassed Emacs' gains while requiring less effort.

Eli earlier clearly identified a number of areas where emacs required huge and totally undue efforts to get the thing to work as expected in the 21st century. 


Jean-Christophe Helary
-----------------------------------------------
http://mac4translators.blogspot.com @brandelune





  parent reply	other threads:[~2019-05-17  1:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 298+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-05-14 23:54 Is Elisp really that slow? Ergus
2019-05-15 11:57 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 13:06 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 13:25   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 13:30     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 14:18       ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 14:45         ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 15:14           ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 15:39             ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 15:51               ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 16:05                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 16:07                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 16:05                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 16:12                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 16:15                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 20:23                       ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 20:30                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 15:42             ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 17:29               ` Drew Adams
2019-05-15 19:38                 ` Ergus
2019-05-15 19:53                   ` Drew Adams
2019-05-15 20:09                     ` Ergus
2019-05-15 23:24                       ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 20:46             ` Ergus
2019-05-15 23:30               ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 23:12             ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 19:47           ` Ergus
2019-05-15 19:45         ` Ergus
2019-05-15 15:18     ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 15:34       ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 15:51         ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 17:30           ` John Yates
2019-05-15 19:29             ` Ergus
2019-05-15 20:15   ` Ergus
2019-05-15 20:21     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 20:57       ` Ergus
2019-05-15 21:00         ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 21:17           ` Ergus
2019-05-17 11:09             ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-15 15:07 ` Uniformity (was: Is Elisp really that slow?) Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 15:24   ` Uniformity Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 15:45     ` Uniformity Stefan Monnier
2019-05-15 19:58   ` Uniformity (was: Is Elisp really that slow?) Ergus
2019-05-18 23:51   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 15:14 ` Is Elisp really that slow? Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 15:40   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-15 16:14     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 16:23       ` Tadeus Prastowo
2019-05-15 16:27         ` tomas
2019-05-15 17:00         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 20:09           ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-16 13:12             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 13:40               ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-16 14:06                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 21:09       ` Ergus
2019-05-16 14:12         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 16:14           ` Ergus
2019-05-16 17:46             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 20:23               ` Ergus
2019-05-16 20:50                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-16 22:46                   ` Ergus
2019-05-16 23:19                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-28 21:08                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-28 21:50                       ` Drew Adams
2019-05-17  1:28                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary [this message]
2019-05-17  2:26                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17  4:05                       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-05-17  6:08                         ` Ergus
2019-05-17  9:21                           ` tomas
2019-05-17 14:01                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 14:16                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 14:50                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 18:19                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 19:23                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 20:51                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 16:37                                 ` tomas
2019-05-17 16:50                                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 17:05                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 18:11                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 18:16                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 18:14                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-30 12:09                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-25 16:48                                 ` Jean Louis
2019-05-29  4:58                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17 13:46                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-29  4:26                         ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17  5:52                       ` Ergus
2019-05-17  9:01                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 12:35                           ` Ergus
2019-05-17 13:13                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 13:22                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 13:39                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 15:07                                   ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-18 15:41                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 15:39                                   ` Ergus
2019-05-17 15:47                                     ` Noam Postavsky
2019-05-17 15:48                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 19:24                               ` Ergus
2019-05-17 20:12                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-19 13:38                                   ` Ergus
2019-05-19 13:42                                     ` Noam Postavsky
2019-06-06  3:24                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-05  6:05                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-05  4:44                                 ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06 21:06                                   ` Xavier Maillard
2019-06-07 19:01                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-31 15:50                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-31 17:57                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07 18:46                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-02 10:49                                 ` Stefan Huchler
2019-06-02 19:16                                   ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-06-02 22:49                                     ` Stefan Huchler
2019-06-07 18:55                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-07 18:53                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17 14:21                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 15:02                             ` Drew Adams
2019-05-17 16:29                           ` Stefan Huchler
2019-05-17 17:19                             ` Ergus
2019-06-05  2:29                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-04 22:29                             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-30  3:30                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17 14:12                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17  8:54                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17  9:36                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 11:09                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 12:04                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 12:56                               ` Ergus
2019-05-17 13:31                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 15:03                                 ` Drew Adams
2019-06-04  1:27                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-31 19:03                                 ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-01  8:17                                   ` Jean Louis
2019-06-07 18:49                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17 13:17                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 13:35                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-17 13:43                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 14:36                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-18 16:54                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-18 17:17                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-18 22:43                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-18 23:54                                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-19  0:24                                               ` 조성빈
2019-05-19  5:24                                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-19 15:18                                                   ` Stefan Huchler
2019-05-19 18:40                                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-20  6:47                                                       ` tomas
2019-05-20 14:57                                                         ` Drew Adams
2019-05-20 15:28                                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-06  5:16                                                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-21 12:19                                                         ` Van L
2019-05-23 20:01                                                     ` Robert Thorpe
2019-05-23 23:05                                                       ` Stefan Huchler
2019-05-24 14:40                                                         ` Robert Thorpe
2019-05-25  0:07                                                           ` Stefan Huchler
2019-05-25 10:54                                                             ` Robert Thorpe
2019-06-06  6:02                                                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  0:16                                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  0:08                                                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  0:06                                                 ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-19  2:40                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-31 21:04                                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-31 15:05                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17 14:40                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-02  2:00                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-19 18:35                           ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-19 19:23                             ` 조성빈
2019-05-20  6:53                             ` tomas
2019-06-06  5:03                             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-11 13:06                             ` Ergus via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-11 13:37                               ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-12  1:08                                 ` Ergus via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-30 21:30                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-30 21:25                         ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
     [not found]                       ` <<20190517055202.ted62gt6hqcip7xt@Ergus>
     [not found]                         ` <<83mujlbgjh.fsf@gnu.org>
2019-05-17 15:03                           ` Drew Adams
2019-06-04  1:20                             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-04  1:50                               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-28 23:16                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17  9:05                     ` tomas
2019-05-28 21:54                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17  8:47                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 15:22                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-17 18:28                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-17 19:55                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-04  1:41                           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-04  1:38                         ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-04  1:37                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-31  3:36                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17  8:55                   ` tomas
2019-05-17 15:02                     ` Drew Adams
2019-05-31  4:52                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-27 14:30                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-29  5:02                     ` Xavier Maillard
2019-06-07 18:40                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-17  6:24                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-30 17:58                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-25  8:22                 ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-25  9:05                   ` 조성빈 via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-25  5:14               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-25  4:42           ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-25  6:31             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07 18:34               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-07 20:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-19  0:03         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-19  8:16           ` Van L
2019-05-19 10:35             ` 조성빈
2019-05-19 12:48               ` Van L
2019-05-19 13:13                 ` Ergus
2019-06-06  2:54                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-19 13:00               ` Ergus
2019-05-19 14:57                 ` 조성빈
2019-06-06  3:08                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-19 13:05               ` Ergus
2019-05-21 12:00                 ` Van L
2019-06-06  3:20                   ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  0:52               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  0:53               ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-19 14:32             ` Drew Adams
2019-05-21 12:09               ` Van L
2019-06-06  0:43             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-06  2:12               ` Drew Adams
2019-05-23 20:16           ` Robert Thorpe
2019-06-07 18:23             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-08 20:12               ` Robert Thorpe
2019-06-09 13:37                 ` Tomas Nordin
2019-06-09 13:50                   ` tomas
2019-06-10 22:55                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-12  9:16                       ` [offtopic] " Van L
2019-06-12  9:28                         ` tomas
2019-06-12 11:31                           ` Van L
2019-06-12 11:44                             ` tomas
2019-06-14  4:12                           ` Xavier Maillard
2019-06-14  7:07                           ` tomas
2019-06-12 11:16                         ` [offtopic] " Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-12 13:28                           ` Van L
2019-05-16 23:31   ` Emanuel Berg
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2019-05-16  1:32 Ergus
2019-05-22  7:13 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-16  1:19 Ergus
2019-05-20 11:32 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-02 21:40 Why is Elisp slow? Ergus
2019-05-02 23:39 ` 조성빈
2019-05-03  0:44   ` Ergus
2019-05-10 13:14     ` Van L
2019-05-10 13:22       ` Michael Heerdegen
2019-05-11  0:38         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-11  7:32           ` Is Elisp really that slow? (was: Why is Elisp slow?) tomas
2019-05-11  7:42             ` 조성빈
2019-05-11  7:57               ` tomas
2019-05-11 23:09                 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-12  7:54                   ` tomas
2019-05-12  9:46                     ` 조성빈
2019-05-12 14:21                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-12 14:45                         ` Is Elisp really that slow? Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-12 15:28                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-12 15:46                             ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-12 17:20                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-12 18:37                                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-12 18:53                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13  1:44                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-12 21:18                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-12 22:22                                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-14 13:39                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-14 15:09                                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-05-13  0:57                                     ` Samuel Wales
2019-05-13 12:37                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-13 14:23                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 14:33                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14  8:24                                           ` tomas
2019-05-14 13:21                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14 14:44                                               ` tomas
2019-05-15 11:25                                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 12:05                                                   ` tomas
2019-05-15 23:02                                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-16  6:48                                                       ` tomas
2019-05-16  9:37                                                         ` Noam Postavsky
2019-05-16 11:02                                                           ` tomas
2019-05-23 14:23                                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-24  1:33                                                               ` Van L
2019-05-16 13:31                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-23 14:28                                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-23 14:54                                                           ` Drew Adams
2019-05-23 14:55                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06  5:18                                                             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-16 14:45                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-25  4:53                                                     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-05-13  1:52                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13  1:35                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-12 21:01                               ` Stefan Monnier
2019-05-13  1:27                             ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 14:38                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 15:00                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 15:25                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-14 11:54                                     ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14 16:21                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-14 17:05                                         ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-14 18:30                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-15 11:27                                             ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-15 14:51                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-16 23:19                                                 ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-17  6:41                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 15:02                                 ` John Yates
2019-05-13 15:14                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-05-13 22:40                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2019-05-14  6:27                                 ` Paul W. Rankin
2019-05-14 13:10                                   ` Emanuel Berg
2019-05-13 15:42                               ` Van L
2019-05-17 15:17                           ` Ken Goldman
2019-06-04  1:36                             ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-08  0:26             ` Is Elisp really that slow? (was: Why is Elisp slow?) Samuel Wales
2019-06-08  8:52               ` tomas
2019-06-08 21:00                 ` Samuel Wales
2019-06-08 21:14                   ` tomas
2019-06-08 21:44                     ` Is Elisp really that slow? Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-08 23:29                       ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-11  4:10                       ` Xavier Maillard
     [not found] <<878sv7sp3r.fsf@telefonica.net>

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