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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>, Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org>
Cc: Roland Winkler <winkler@gnu.org>, 21563@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#21563: 24.5; discourage load-hook variables
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2020 16:24:10 -0800 (PST)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <320a9fa6-6419-420e-ac97-9dcbe54a04a6@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87muaoz2qu.fsf@marxist.se>

> Interesting.  Since they also seem to be prone to cause problems like
> in Bug#24491, perhaps it is indeed better to get rid of them.  They do
> look crufty and redundant once you start reviewing them in context --
> with no clear benefit.
> 
> I believe Drew already pointed out that any use of them could be
> easily replaced by (with-)?eval-after-load.

No.  I didn't say anything about "any use of them".

I said only that the behavior that a load hook isn't invoked
if the library has already been loaded can be realized by
using conditional code inside `(with-)?eval-after-load'.

A load hook is a function.  Code can invoke it anytime, in
any context.  It has no predefined behavior, on its own -
in particular, nothing like `(with-)?eval-after-load'
behavior.  The only similarity is that by convention a load
hook is invoked at the end of a Lisp file.  But nothing
prevents using a (funcall dired-load-hook) anywhere.

This is not to say that we really need to be able to do
that.  It's just to say that there's no way to claim that
`(with-)?eval-after-load' can be made to do what a load
hook does, in general.

I don't have a giant objection to doing what you're talking
about doing.  But I think it's unfortunate, and little, if
anything, is really gained.  Who knows what 3rd-party code
out there makes use of such hooks?  And again, they're easy
for users to discover.  And I think they're likely to be
used by code, and not just in init files.  That's not so
true of `(with-)?eval-after-load' (explicitly discouraged).





  reply	other threads:[~2020-01-16  0:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 20+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-09-25 18:57 bug#21563: 24.5; discourage load-hook variables Roland Winkler
2020-01-15 19:32 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-15 20:21   ` Drew Adams
2020-01-15 20:42     ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-16  0:27       ` Roland Winkler
2020-01-15 22:06   ` Glenn Morris
2020-01-16  0:03     ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-16  0:24       ` Drew Adams [this message]
2020-01-16  0:54         ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-16  3:56           ` Drew Adams
2020-01-16 13:33             ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-16 16:15               ` Drew Adams
2020-01-16 20:30                 ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-16 21:08                   ` Drew Adams
2020-01-16  0:31       ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-16  4:14     ` Stefan Kangas
2020-04-16  9:07       ` Roland Winkler
2020-04-26 14:33         ` Stefan Kangas
2020-10-20 17:16           ` Stefan Kangas
2020-01-16 11:49 ` Mauro Aranda

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