From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Upcoming loss of usability of Emacs source files and Emacs. Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 09:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <32013464-2300-46c6-ba46-4a3c36bfee5d@default> References: <20150615142237.GA3517@acm.fritz.box> <87y4jkhqh5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <557F3C22.4060909@cs.ucla.edu> <5580D356.4050708@cs.ucla.edu> <87si9qonxb.fsf@gnu.org> <87ioamz8if.fsf@petton.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1434557052 27588 80.91.229.3 (17 Jun 2015 16:04:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:04:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: acm@muc.de, stephen@xemacs.org, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Nicolas Petton , rms@gnu.org, Tassilo Horn Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 17 18:03:59 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5Foh-0002Bl-ML for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 18:03:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47817 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5Fog-0002qi-VI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 12:03:54 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41115) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5FoF-0002iH-IS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 12:03:31 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5FoB-00062U-SJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 12:03:27 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:51427) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5FoB-00062J-MP; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 12:03:23 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t5HG3ENZ020359 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:03:14 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t5HG3Dqg014401 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:03:13 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t5HG3DsZ019813; Wed, 17 Jun 2015 16:03:13 GMT In-Reply-To: <87ioamz8if.fsf@petton.fr> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:187248 Archived-At: > From: Nicolas Petton > Richard Stallman writes: > > > This change in the source format is a bad idea... > > We must not make any convention involving those characters > > in source code. >=20 > I agree, but then why do we have electric-quote-mode for? When > enabled, it will insert curly quotes in docstrings in place of `'. We do *not* have `electric-quote-mode' (yet). It was added to development code after the last release, as part of an individual crusade to turn `...' into =E2=80=98...=E2=80=99. As S. Turnbull has carefully pointed out, this =E2=80=98...=E2=80=99 stuff = is just a test, to see how much you love it, and it should be reverted if you do not love it (modulo a knowing nod from our dear leader, of course). As another example, starting next month all Emacs text will appear mirrored (derorrim). This is a test to see if you prefer such a presentation - it is regarded by some as a convenient (and modern!) brain-eye strengthening aid. Again, this enhancement too can be reverted, given enough clamour and a d-l nod. As Mr Turnbull has also reminded us, changes to Emacs development code have *no* momentum or inertia. Just because a boatload of changes have radically transformed the development version of Emacs over a period of months or years, that means nothing. All is easily reversible, provided you gather enough petition signatures and present a notarized and watermarked note from your mother. Such code changes are simply tests, to see if you are paying attention. This approach is, like, waaaaaay more dynamic and 21st-century than discussing potential changes with arguments pro & con and offering patches for people to try on their own.