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*   and nXML mode
@ 2021-08-09  2:22 Jean-Christophe Helary
  2021-08-09  5:57 ` Yuri Khan
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Christophe Helary @ 2021-08-09  2:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Is there a reason why nXML mode refuses to consider   entities as legit in a document that starts with:

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">


-- 
Jean-Christophe Helary @brandelune
https://mac4translators.blogspot.com
https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: &nbsp; and nXML mode
  2021-08-09  2:22 &nbsp; and nXML mode Jean-Christophe Helary
@ 2021-08-09  5:57 ` Yuri Khan
  2021-08-11  0:41   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
  2021-08-11  5:45   ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Yuri Khan @ 2021-08-09  5:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jean-Christophe Helary; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

On Mon, 9 Aug 2021 at 09:22, Jean-Christophe Helary
<lists@traduction-libre.org> wrote:

> Is there a reason why nXML mode refuses to consider &nbsp; entities as legit in a document that starts with:
>
> <!DOCTYPE html>
> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">

If you view that as an XML document (which is what nXML deals with),
without any preconceived knowledge of HTML5, there is nothing to
suggest that &nbsp; is legit.

In XML, an entity can be defined inline within the doctype declaration:

    <!DOCTYPE html [
      <!ENTITY nbsp "&#a0;">
    ]>

or by reference to an external entity definition:

    <!DOCTYPE html
      PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
      SYSTEM "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">

(In the HTML5 spec, this is referred to as “obsolete permitted DOCTYPE
string”, and the obsoletion is from the HTML5 point of view. I.e. if
you use an HTML5-aware parser, <!DOCTYPE html> is sufficient to
declare an HTML5 document.)

If you fetch that url, you will see that it references a number of
modules, and if you chase references far enough, you will get to
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/DTD/xhtml-lat1.ent which contains this as its
first significant line:

    <!ENTITY nbsp   "&#160;" ><!-- no-break space = non-breaking
space, U+00A0 ISOnum -->

and that’s what makes &nbsp; a valid entity reference in an XHTML document.

(XML processors normally have some shortcuts, such as DTD pre-cached
in the so-called XML catalog, so that they don’t have to fetch them
from the network each time. XML catalog is keyed by the PUBLIC and/or
SYSTEM identifiers but not by the doctype root element name.)



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: &nbsp; and nXML mode
  2021-08-09  5:57 ` Yuri Khan
@ 2021-08-11  0:41   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
  2021-08-11  5:45   ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Jean-Christophe Helary @ 2021-08-11  0:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs



> On Aug 9, 2021, at 14:57, Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 9 Aug 2021 at 09:22, Jean-Christophe Helary
> <lists@traduction-libre.org> wrote:
> 
>> Is there a reason why nXML mode refuses to consider &nbsp; entities as legit in a document that starts with:
>> 
>> <!DOCTYPE html>
>> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
> 
> If you view that as an XML document (which is what nXML deals with),
> without any preconceived knowledge of HTML5, there is nothing to
> suggest that &nbsp; is legit.
> 
> In XML, an entity can be defined inline within the doctype declaration:
> 
>    <!DOCTYPE html [
>      <!ENTITY nbsp "&#a0;">
>    ]>
> 
> or by reference to an external entity definition:
> 
>    <!DOCTYPE html
>      PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN"
>      SYSTEM "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd">

When I put that at the top of my file, nxml says "unexpected token".

> (In the HTML5 spec, this is referred to as “obsolete permitted DOCTYPE
> string”, and the obsoletion is from the HTML5 point of view. I.e. if
> you use an HTML5-aware parser, <!DOCTYPE html> is sufficient to
> declare an HTML5 document.)
> 
> If you fetch that url, you will see that it references a number of
> modules, and if you chase references far enough, you will get to
> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/DTD/xhtml-lat1.ent which contains this as its
> first significant line:
> 
>    <!ENTITY nbsp   "&#160;" ><!-- no-break space = non-breaking
> space, U+00A0 ISOnum -->
> 
> and that’s what makes &nbsp; a valid entity reference in an XHTML document.
> 
> (XML processors normally have some shortcuts, such as DTD pre-cached
> in the so-called XML catalog, so that they don’t have to fetch them
> from the network each time. XML catalog is keyed by the PUBLIC and/or
> SYSTEM identifiers but not by the doctype root element name.)

Thank you for explaining the process. I was not aware of how processors handled the thing.

But I guess trying to make nxml be aware all this goes well beyond the scope of my work, so I'll just use html-mode.

-- 
Jean-Christophe Helary @brandelune
https://mac4translators.blogspot.com
https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: &nbsp; and nXML mode
  2021-08-09  5:57 ` Yuri Khan
  2021-08-11  0:41   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
@ 2021-08-11  5:45   ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2021-08-11  6:19     ` Yuri Khan
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 5+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2021-08-11  5:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

>> Is there a reason why nXML mode refuses to consider &nbsp; entities as
>> legit in a document that starts with:
>>
>> <!DOCTYPE html>
>> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
>
> If you view that as an XML document (which is what nXML deals with),
> without any preconceived knowledge of HTML5, there is nothing to
> suggest that &nbsp; is legit.
>
> In XML, an entity can be defined inline within the doctype declaration:
>
>     <!DOCTYPE html [
>       <!ENTITY nbsp "&#a0;">
>     ]>

My understanding is that XML wants to be "parsable" without knowing
anything about the schema being used, and that this notion of parsing
includes conversion of `&<foo>;` entities, so basically XML only allows
the 4 or 5 predefined/builtin entities and that's it.

>     <!ENTITY nbsp   "&#160;" ><!-- no-break space = non-breaking
> space, U+00A0 ISOnum -->

I thought the recommended way to "do &bnsp;" in XML is to use an
actual NBSP character (because XML can use utf-8).


        Stefan




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

* Re: &nbsp; and nXML mode
  2021-08-11  5:45   ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
@ 2021-08-11  6:19     ` Yuri Khan
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread
From: Yuri Khan @ 2021-08-11  6:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

On Wed, 11 Aug 2021 at 12:46, Stefan Monnier via Users list for the
GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> wrote:

> I thought the recommended way to "do &bnsp;" in XML is to use an
> actual NBSP character (because XML can use utf-8).

It can, but it might be desirable to have visible and typeable[*]
representation for unusual space characters, especially if there’s not
much nbsp awareness among those who are going to collaborate on a
document.

[*]: I mean visibility and typeability by muggles, i.e. without
relying on Emacs fontification, C-x 8 RET, or Xkb options. Otherwise:

Co-worker: (sends you a patch)

You: This space here should be non-breaking, we don’t want
prepositions hanging on the previous line when the next word gets
wrapped.

Co-worker: What's a non-breaking space?

You: (explain)

Co-worker: But how do I type one? BTW I'm on Windows.

You: (try to explain but don’t remember how to configure Windows
keyboard layouts) Here, just copy one of those already in the text.

Co-worker: But how do I tell which are which? They look exactly the same to me.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-08-11  6:19 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-08-09  2:22 &nbsp; and nXML mode Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-08-09  5:57 ` Yuri Khan
2021-08-11  0:41   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-08-11  5:45   ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-08-11  6:19     ` Yuri Khan

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