From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: uzibalqa Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Source code, git and cvs Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 20:10:56 +0000 Message-ID: <2vnXX4qik0jHDuvWmRXnnYRHTqkGXCBSpvKXxE7yBjRQmM1xAxUFxTJg6PeeMyEdWKgbKh3tJcTyr5nqVWqqtFASvvFHRmNRpZWVtZnwyx0=@proton.me> References: <83mszq3bmx.fsf@gnu.org> <83ilae3899.fsf@gnu.org> <835y6e35iy.fsf@gnu.org> <83zg3q1ll9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28394"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: uzibalqa Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 20 22:11:57 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qMa0C-0007CS-TK for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 20 Jul 2023 22:11:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMZzU-0004jn-OC; Thu, 20 Jul 2023 16:11:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMZzS-0004jZ-Jt for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 20 Jul 2023 16:11:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-4325.protonmail.ch ([185.70.43.25]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qMZzO-0007eg-V4; Thu, 20 Jul 2023 16:11:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=proton.me; s=protonmail; t=1689883860; x=1690143060; bh=5rXoqbVG2qIk1AYtEq2nPjSoxSaqV2s+2Ua5+0+RMiM=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=fCx5wnEVLZznlfYKozDwrYdRKU3FYpUZYoI6dGVJzmDej72XFMIMi+sq0l6kRsW2J 2ibNc/aSk8yvfAaLSy+YzT4KvImq8N+V2rXOw62UD0/HaE7+LIvvrlc3SjGUQJzxlr o4fUOv8/MaCEg9vkXBjBkskKrt3QHR8O1Q/4uI+gyMc1OWR/rj34kkgzkuhrpRPKkp BCHiD4ilZSht5RThKqqm7a7pG1TjdZmZU7eZ/YQ1DzgoK/F1TQo25hK/iNs13mD/ZX wKwwzuW+qcsTEbG4FJtDpAPLaMfkCXgvyY1sJmOpG0WhZzJSjICPGeLd2GV59ap042 OL13JLRNfS+Mw== In-Reply-To: Feedback-ID: 52887082:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.43.25; envelope-from=uzibalqa@proton.me; helo=mail-4325.protonmail.ch X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TO_EQ_FM_DIRECT_MX=0.535, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:144364 Archived-At: Sent with Proton Mail secure email. ------- Original Message ------- On Friday, July 21st, 2023 at 7:12 AM, uzibalqa wrote: >=20 > ------- Original Message ------- > On Friday, July 21st, 2023 at 6:31 AM, Eli Zaretskii eliz@gnu.org wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2023 17:33:41 +0000 > > > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me > > > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > >=20 > > > > > README should describe both immediately at the start. Not just ab= out > > > > > installing from the tarball. > > > >=20 > > > > We clearly disagree. > > >=20 > > > Of course, hide it and make things more difficult for new users. And = then > > > expect them to figure out things by themselves. And when they ask que= stions, > > > never be straightforward and give them the code they need to use. It = is their > > > job to go through the ever increasing obfuscation of information embe= dded within > > > deeper and deeper levels of cyclomatic complexity. Classic example of= development > > > malpractice. > >=20 > > You should stop your arrogant and rude remarks about project practices > > that you just learned yesterday. It is not wise, to say the least, to > > show your ignorance by claiming you are right even after you have been > > pointed to your mistakes and stuff you missed in the docs. >=20 >=20 > Yes, I am right, you are wrong. >=20 > > The README, INSTALL, etc. files in the top-level directory are the > > result of many years of experience and many users contributing to > > them, they are not just random text that was written yesterday and > > therefore needs to be polished. It's already polished, so any change > > you suggest based on 5 sec of thought is more than likely to have > > downsides that were already considered and rejected in the long > > history of Emacs development. >=20 >=20 > Typical nonsense. >=20 > > You have ample opportunity to exercise some humility and learn (and > > you have a lot to learn, believe me) before you get to the position > > where you might "know better", and have the moral right to teach us > > what is "malpractice". Suggest to use that opportunity. >=20 >=20 > I just look at things how they are, so one can effortlessly navigate > through the material. There is no need to be humble and I definitely > have the autonomy to take action without approval or authority. I am > certainly not bound by any requirement of external validation or permissi= on > to do so. At one time you stated that one of the gravest problems you see for the fut= ure=20 of Emacs development is that we slowly but steadily lose old-timers who kno= w a=20 lot about the Emacs internals ... If this tendency continues, we will soon= lose=20 the ability to make deep infrastructure changes. Yet you continue to refuse spending effort on making sure that future devel= opers=20 will be able to learn quickly. But the direction I usually get is to work = hard. =20 The reality is that hard working people fail. We complain about everything= in life because we're doing everything hard. Once your intelligence has turned aga= inst you, there is no power in universe that can save you, that's all. The solution is not about adding more and more stuff but having a compact e= nough=20 commentary that people would be willing to spend reasonable time on compare= d to=20 the time taken to complete some task. If that takes too long or requires t= oo much jumping around, the project is history. Worked with companies like that, t= hey are=20 all gone.