Lost functionality in buffer item in menu bar from 22 to 23...

Lost functionality in buffer item in menu bar from 22 to 23...

[Drew Ames]

Hello all,

I've been using Emacs  22.3.1 on Slackware64_13 for several months.
I've been using Emacs since version 21.4 in 2005.

I decided recently to try Emacs 23.1. I compiled and installed it
correctly, but now there's a problem -- especially in text mode (e.g.
emacs -nw).

With Emacs 22, I can type "F10" and then "b" and I get the following
in a window above the minibuffer:

--------------------
screenshot----------------------------------------------------
File Edit Options Buffers Tools Minibuf Help
;; This buffer is for notes you don't want to save, and for Lisp
evaluation.
;; If you want to create a file, visit that file with C-x C-f,
;; then enter the text in that file's own buffer.



-uu1:---F1  *scratch*      All L5     (Lisp Interaction)----6:01PM
0.41---------
Press PageUp key to reach this buffer from the minibuffer.
Alternatively, you can use Up/Down keys (or your History keys) to
change
the item in the minibuffer, and press RET when you are done, or press
the
marked letters to pick up your choice.  Type C-g or ESC ESC ESC to
cancel.
In this buffer, type RET to select the completion near point.

Possible completions are:
c==>*Completions*  *%              s==>*scratch*
b==>*Buffer List*  %
e==>emacs-windows-reference.txt    --  .../emacs-reference/
E==>emacs-reference  %  --  .../emacs-reference/
h==>~  %  --  /home/drew/          m==>*Messages*  *
n==>Next Buffer  (C-x <C-right>)   p==>Previous Buffer  (C-x <C-left>)
S==>Select Named Buffer...  (C-x b)
l==>List All Buffers  (C-x C-b)
-uu1:%*-F1  *Completions*   All L1     (Completion List)----6:01PM
0.41---------
Select Buffer (up/down to change, PgUp to menu): c==>*Completions*  *%
--------------------
screenshot----------------------------------------------------

With that, I simply select the first letter of the buffer I want and
Emacs switches to it and shows only the selected buffer.

With Emacs 23, if I hit F10 and b I get this:

--------------------
screenshot----------------------------------------------------
File Edit Options Buffers Tools Minibuf Help
;; This buffer is for notes you don't want to save, and for Lisp
evaluation.
;; If you want to create a file, visit that file with C-x C-f,
;; then enter the text in that file's own buffer.







-UU1:----F1  *scratch*      All L5     (Lisp Interaction)----5:58PM
0.14--------
Press PageUp key to reach this buffer from the minibuffer.
Alternatively, you can use Up/Down keys (or your History keys) to
change
the item in the minibuffer, and press RET when you are done, or press
the
marked letters to pick up your choice.  Type C-g or ESC ESC ESC to
cancel.
In this buffer, type RET to select the completion near point.

Possible completions are:
n==>Next Buffer                        p==>Previous Buffer
s==>Select Named Buffer...             l==>List All Buffers


-UU1:%*--F1  *Completions*   All L1     (Completion List)----5:58PM
0.14--------
Select Buffer (up/down to change, PgUp to menu): n==>Next Buffer
--------------------
screenshot----------------------------------------------------

This is far less helpful. I then need to type l, which gives me the
buffer list in the window. If I select  a buffer, it switches to it,
but leaves a split window. The non-menu equivalent is:

C-x C-b
C-x o
<the letter of the buffer I want>
C-x 1

There's simply no point in using the menu with Emacs 23. I much prefer
F10 -> b -> <first letter>, like I do with Emacs 22.

So here are a couple of questions:

1) Is this a bug? This is a serious question. If it is, I'll be happy
to report it.

2) If not, how do I restore the functionality from Emacs 22's menu
bar's buffer menu to Emacs 23's?

Thank you,

Drew Ames

Re: Lost functionality in buffer item in menu bar from 22 to 23...

[Drew Ames]

Okay, I've been hacking on this for a little bit, and here's what I
found.

I renamed the menu-bar.el.gz, menu-bar.elc, tmm.el.gz, and tmm.elc
files from emacs 23.1 and then copied the same files from emacs 22.3
to the 23.1 lisp directory.

The end result was no change in the behavior of the buffer menu bar
item in tmm-menubar. Pressing F10 then "b" gave me just the same four
options, with no list of open buffers. There's something going on
beyond the tmm and menu-bar files.

I did a diff of the two versions of the tmm.el.gz files and found some
differences, but I don't really know what they meant.

This is a little frustrating because the Emacs 22 buffer item in tmm-
menubar makes buffer switching [I]very[/I] easy: Hit F10, b, and the
first letter of the buffer I want. Then the menubar buffer goes away
and the buffer I selected is up.

Three key strokes which requires hitting only three keys.

The other option of C-x-C-b requires me to the C-x-o into the buffer
list. [I]Then[/I] I select the buffer I want, and I'm left with a
split screen, so then I need to hit C-x-1 to remove the split.

Seven key strokes requiring hitting eleven keys.

Does anyone know a way to get the previous functionality back?

Regards,

-Drew Ames

Re: Lost functionality in buffer item in menu bar from 22 to 23...

[Stefan Monnier]

> I renamed the menu-bar.el.gz, menu-bar.elc, tmm.el.gz, and tmm.elc
> files from emacs 23.1 and then copied the same files from emacs 22.3
> to the 23.1 lisp directory.

When something gets worse between versions, the first thing to do is
check etc/NEWS to see if the change was conscious and if so how to
revert it in your .emacs.  In this case, I think the etc/NEWS won't
say anything, which means you should report it via M-x report-emacs-bug.

> The end result was no change in the behavior of the buffer menu bar
> item in tmm-menubar. Pressing F10 then "b" gave me just the same four
> options, with no list of open buffers. There's something going on
> beyond the tmm and menu-bar files.

Indeed, I see the problem: the GUI's menu bar gives me all the buffers,
but F10 b only shows me the 4 other choices.  Please M-x report-emacs-bug.

> This is a little frustrating because the Emacs 22 buffer item in tmm-
> menubar makes buffer switching [I]very[/I] easy: Hit F10, b, and the
> first letter of the buffer I want. Then the menubar buffer goes away
> and the buffer I selected is up.

We (Emacs maintainers) usually don't pay too much attention to the
actual structure of the menus: we assume the menus are only used for
"advertisement" purposes, so we care about the fact that the structure
makes sense and makes commands easy to find, but not so much about
whether a command is quick to access.  I.e. as soon as you use a feature
often enough to care about where the command is located in the menu, you
should try and use a key-binding instead.

E.g. for buffer switching there are many different options available
which might suit you even better, starting with just C-x b, or refined
via iswitchb, etc...


        Stefan

Re: Lost functionality in buffer item in menu bar from 22 to 23...

[Drew Ames]

On Mar 22, 11:54 am, Stefan Monnier <monn...@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> > I renamed the menu-bar.el.gz, menu-bar.elc, tmm.el.gz, and tmm.elc
> > files from emacs 23.1 and then copied the same files from emacs 22.3
> > to the 23.1 lisp directory.
>
> When something gets worse between versions, the first thing to do is
> check etc/NEWS to see if the change was conscious and if so how to
> revert it in your .emacs.  In this case, I think the etc/NEWS won't
> say anything, which means you should report it via M-x report-emacs-bug.
>
> > The end result was no change in the behavior of the buffer menu bar
> > item in tmm-menubar. Pressing F10 then "b" gave me just the same four
> > options, with no list of open buffers. There's something going on
> > beyond the tmm and menu-bar files.
>
> Indeed, I see the problem: the GUI's menu bar gives me all the buffers,
> but F10 b only shows me the 4 other choices.  Please M-x report-emacs-bug.
>
> > This is a little frustrating because the Emacs 22 buffer item in tmm-
> > menubar makes buffer switching [I]very[/I] easy: Hit F10, b, and the
> > first letter of the buffer I want. Then the menubar buffer goes away
> > and the buffer I selected is up.
>
> We (Emacs maintainers) usually don't pay too much attention to the
> actual structure of the menus: we assume the menus are only used for
> "advertisement" purposes, so we care about the fact that the structure
> makes sense and makes commands easy to find, but not so much about
> whether a command is quick to access.  I.e. as soon as you use a feature
> often enough to care about where the command is located in the menu, you
> should try and use a key-binding instead.
>
> E.g. for buffer switching there are many different options available
> which might suit you even better, starting with just C-x b, or refined
> via iswitchb, etc...
>
>         Stefan

Stefan,

Thanks for the response. I submitted this bug with the above
information. It is now bug number 5726.

Regards,

Drew Ames

Re: Lost functionality in buffer item in menu bar from 22 to 23...

[Drew Ames]

I'm not sure if anyone is still reading this thread, but here goes:

On Mar 22, 11:54 am, Stefan Monnier <monn...@iro.umontreal.ca> wrote:
> We (Emacs maintainers) usually don't pay too much attention to the
> actual structure of the menus: we assume the menus are only used for
> "advertisement" purposes, so we care about the fact that the structure
> makes sense and makes commands easy to find, but not so much about
> whether a command is quick to access.  I.e. as soon as you use a feature
> often enough to care about where the command is located in the menu, you
> should try and use a key-binding instead.
>
> E.g. for buffer switching there are many different options available
> which might suit you even better, starting with just C-x b, or refined
> via iswitchb, etc...
>
>         Stefan

Stefan,

Your points are well-taken. I do in fact tend to use the menu mostly
as a cheat sheet to find or recall seldom-used commands while using
key-bindings for most of my work.

As for the different options for buffer switching, I've been playing a
lot with buffer-menu and ibuffer. I would _almost_ be happy to simply
bind ibuffer to F9 and call that when I need to switch buffers --
except there's one thing that the Emacs 22 tmm-menubar does that
ibuffer does not.

What I really like about the tmm-menubar is that it prompts for a one-
key selection of menu and sub-menu items. Specifically, the buffer
item of tmm-menubar lists specific buffers and provides a one-key
shortcut to each of them. It would be wonderful if ibuffer offered
that feature.

(As an aside, the other think I like about Emacs 22's tmm-menubar is
that it shows the keyboard shortcuts next to the menu items --
something that the Emasc 23 tmm-menubar does not seem to consistently
do as the example in the first post shows.)

As for why the bug is happening in Emacs 23, I'm no closer to an
answer. Bearing in mind that I'm, at best, a _very_ poor Emacs lisp
hacker, the best I can determine by looking at tmm.el is that tmm
draws most of its variables from x-menu-bar. Perhaps there was a
change in x-menu-bar in Emacs 23 that is causing the bug?

Regards,

-Drew Ames

Re: Lost functionality in buffer item in menu bar from 22 to 23...

[Stefan Monnier]

> (As an aside, the other think I like about Emacs 22's tmm-menubar is
> that it shows the keyboard shortcuts next to the menu items --
> something that the Emasc 23 tmm-menubar does not seem to consistently
> do as the example in the first post shows.)

Sounds like a bug as well.  Please M-x report-emacs-bug.

> As for why the bug is happening in Emacs 23, I'm no closer to an
> answer. Bearing in mind that I'm, at best, a _very_ poor Emacs lisp
> hacker, the best I can determine by looking at tmm.el is that tmm
> draws most of its variables from x-menu-bar. Perhaps there was a
> change in x-menu-bar in Emacs 23 that is causing the bug?

Yes, I just found the bug that prevented buffers from being listed (the
bug was that tmm doesn't handle all valid menu entries and the menu for
buffers was changed to use a format that wasn't supported by tmm).
It will be fixed in Emacs-23.2.


        Stefan