From: Rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 18:55:41 -0700 (PDT) [thread overview]
Message-ID: <2d758e8c-51ca-44fd-bc25-7f40d42630ce@googlegroups.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.2972.1427637975.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
On Sunday, March 29, 2015 at 7:36:17 PM UTC+5:30, Óscar Fuentes wrote:
> Rusi writes:
>
> [snip]
>
> > And even Elisp!
> >
> > *** Welcome to IELM *** Type (describe-mode) for help.
> > ELISP> (setq α 1 β 2 γ 3)
> > 3 (#o3, #x3, ?\C-c)
> > ELISP> (list α β γ)
> > (1 2 3)
>
> Some months ago I experimented with using Unicode on my coding. I was
> very excited about it. At the end, the experience showed without a doubt
> that it is a bad idea. One of the reasons is very familiar to us: a
> funtamental feature of a programmer's font is how clearly it
> distinguishes 1 from l, 0 from O. Using Unicode makes this problem
> explode.
>
Thank you Oscar for some (rather rare) reasonable argument.
[Compared to yours much of the rest I see here is on the lines:
"Since my keyboard is broken; kindly allow me to break yours!"
As I pointed out earlier what you point out is true and considerably worse than that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN_homograph_attack
The point is that this choice has already been made: many languages are already
*carelessly* accepting unicode.
Some are a little more laissez-faire than others:
1. "flag" and "flag" are the same identifier in python; but different in
haskell and elisp. IMHO python has made the more sane choice
2. Haskell and Elisp accept x₁ , Python doesn't. I think python is wrong here
3. Haskell allows → for -> ← for <- (very heavily used in haskell)
However the symbol that defines its very identity and is its logo – λ –
it does not allow because its in letter category.
> > ELISP>
> >
> > How much costly was that α to type than alpha?? One backslash!!
> >
> > Add to that the fact that programs are read
> > - 10 times more than written during development
> > - 100 times more during maintenance
>
> Precisely, my experience is that Unicode makes things much harder to
> read, and not ony because the problem mentioned above.
You are raising a point about a certain software/hardware that we all use and
that no one understands – our brains. Consider:
APL is generally regarded as unreadable. [That it is often derisively called
'writeonly' not unwriteable is a separate discussion]
But neither is Cobol regarded as readable. And worst of all is machine-language.
If an arbitrarily restricted charset were a good fit to our brains, Cobol, which
expressly tries to mirror layman prose (ie stay within [A-Za-z0-9] ) would have
worked better. And while our machines seem mighty pleased with building the
universe from {0,1}, our brains (ok at least mine) suffers on reading
machine-code.
So where on the spectrum between APL/conventional laissez-faire math and
Cobol/Machine-code is the optimum?
I believe this is an open question
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-03-30 1:55 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 121+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-03-23 22:53 if vs. when vs. and: style question Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-24 0:15 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-24 0:34 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-24 0:22 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.2648.1427156603.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-24 2:28 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-24 6:12 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 0:21 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 0:20 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 2:44 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 2:51 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 7:12 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 14:02 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 14:40 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-25 14:52 ` if vs. when vs. and: style question now Unicode Dan Espen
2015-03-25 15:24 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:46 ` Dan Espen
2015-03-25 16:02 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 17:16 ` Dan Espen
2015-03-28 17:55 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 17:46 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:22 ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 15:37 ` Rusi
2015-03-29 1:17 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 15:45 ` Rusi
2015-03-29 1:03 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-29 2:41 ` Rusi
2015-03-29 3:11 ` Rusi
2015-03-29 14:05 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-03-29 16:00 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-30 1:55 ` Óscar Fuentes
[not found] ` <mailman.2998.1427680540.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 2:25 ` Rusi
2015-03-29 18:27 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30 0:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30 1:33 ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-03-30 1:50 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30 9:44 ` tomas
2015-03-30 11:46 ` Óscar Fuentes
[not found] ` <mailman.3016.1427716011.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 13:03 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30 14:18 ` Stefan Monnier
2015-03-30 15:21 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-30 15:31 ` Óscar Fuentes
[not found] ` <mailman.3031.1427729518.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 17:15 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
[not found] ` <mailman.3030.1427728904.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-31 6:26 ` Reality and Proofs (was if vs. when vs. and: style question) Rusi
[not found] ` <mailman.3010.1427708687.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 12:59 ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Pascal J. Bourguignon
[not found] ` <mailman.2972.1427637975.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-30 1:55 ` Rusi [this message]
[not found] ` <mailman.2749.1427294481.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 15:33 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 15:36 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 16:06 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.2751.1427299594.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 16:19 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 16:23 ` Rusi
2015-03-29 1:24 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 17:02 ` Dan Espen
2015-03-25 18:23 ` Drew Adams
[not found] ` <mailman.2758.1427307846.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 18:52 ` Dan Espen
2015-03-26 9:47 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-29 23:06 ` Emanuel Berg
[not found] ` <mailman.2799.1427363259.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 10:24 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:28 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:47 ` Unicode in source (Was Re: if vs. when vs. and: style question) Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2802.1427366873.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 15:54 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 17:07 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2824.1427389660.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 17:16 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 10:43 ` if vs. when vs. and: style question Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-26 13:02 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-01 22:03 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 22:24 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-25 19:17 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 20:31 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-25 22:21 ` Richard Wordingham
2015-03-25 23:21 ` Drew Adams
2015-03-25 23:52 ` Richard Wordingham
[not found] ` <mailman.2782.1427325697.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 3:02 ` Rusi
2015-03-26 10:01 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2800.1427364117.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 13:00 ` Rusi
2015-03-26 13:28 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2809.1427376497.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 15:51 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 16:21 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2779.1427322080.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-04-01 2:31 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 3:03 ` Rusi
2015-04-01 14:29 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-04-01 14:57 ` Rusi
[not found] ` <mailman.2771.1427315503.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-26 4:23 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 19:20 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-26 11:37 ` Alan Schmitt
2015-03-30 1:20 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-30 2:43 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-30 3:12 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 17:49 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 18:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
[not found] ` <mailman.2756.1427307016.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 21:27 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 21:32 ` Rusi
2015-03-31 16:49 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-31 17:22 ` Rusi
2015-04-01 18:08 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-04-01 20:01 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 3:54 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 7:59 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-27 8:06 ` tomas
2015-03-27 8:11 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-03-27 9:20 ` tomas
2015-03-27 9:31 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2860.1427443603.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 12:41 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 13:05 ` tomas
[not found] ` <mailman.2875.1427461540.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 13:35 ` Rusi
2015-03-27 12:34 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 0:49 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 7:53 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
[not found] ` <mailman.2856.1427442800.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-27 8:56 ` Joost Kremers
2015-03-27 12:19 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-27 14:20 ` Rusi
2015-03-25 2:35 ` Rusi
2015-03-27 0:31 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 21:27 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-27 22:54 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-28 1:16 ` Rusi
2015-03-28 12:47 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-24 15:18 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2015-03-25 0:44 ` Emanuel Berg
2015-03-24 7:21 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
[not found] ` <mailman.2659.1427181547.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-25 0:34 ` Emanuel Berg
[not found] <mailman.2645.1427151196.31049.help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
2015-03-23 23:19 ` Emanuel Berg
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=2d758e8c-51ca-44fd-bc25-7f40d42630ce@googlegroups.com \
--to=rustompmody@gmail.com \
--cc=help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.