From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Ken Manheimer" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: cursor doesn't show through transparent images in emacs 22, unlike emacs 21 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:45:56 -0400 Message-ID: <2cd46e7f0608220645i4c9677d3mf778b3ded10dba07@mail.gmail.com> References: <2cd46e7f0608181622w23c7d2b0h9b963deeadfd1c06@mail.gmail.com> <2cd46e7f0608191849g521593acm1f9dbc355315ffd6@mail.gmail.com> <2cd46e7f0608200810ge8885f7l7ffc88fd30a8a3eb@mail.gmail.com> <85zmdx2o5n.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1156254399 17980 80.91.229.2 (22 Aug 2006 13:46:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:46:39 +0000 (UTC) Cc: storm@cua.dk, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 22 15:46:35 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GFWa4-0007OH-DI for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:46:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GFWa3-0003DR-27 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:46:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GFWZq-0003CE-J3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:45:58 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1GFWZp-0003BC-Ne for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:45:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GFWZp-0003B0-IL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:45:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [64.233.182.188] (helo=nf-out-0910.google.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1GFWhR-00080v-O0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 09:53:49 -0400 Original-Received: by nf-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id q29so9186nfc for ; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:45:56 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Mk8uMfev7E0fqMvIL86Rlv+KPpzaUcuMGuNa9DI9J5Pws9MagIDxlq2xvWlGQT5GcQ6F8X2RvpnqQx6M4YDr4z7HaLf6tEUsdCZwFGp1UuXrDo4PH/mEb72HgvKgANU3gxVrW5uccwrRQlZjNQ5BfiVbcJvwjQmnL0aT3s9BgpY= Original-Received: by 10.49.26.18 with SMTP id d18mr439758nfj; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.78.144.19 with HTTP; Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-To: "David Kastrup" In-Reply-To: <85zmdx2o5n.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:58714 Archived-At: On 8/22/06, David Kastrup wrote: > Richard Stallman writes: > > > with this bug, however, it's hard to > > tell whether or not the cursor is in the window or another. > > > > I see why this is a problem. > > > > So I suppose that anything which makes the cursor visible > > would solve the problem. Right? > > I don't know why Ken has chosen not to reply on the list, but he told > me in private that he has disabled cursor blinking (or rather, lets it > commence only after 30 seconds). it was just an oversight - i meant to reply to the list and you, but forgot to hit "reply-to". what i wrote: sorry, i didn't realize you had directed that to me. no, but i delay cursor bliking for 20 seconds, because i find it distracting, and only want it happening when imy attention has gone away to something else and is coming back. are you suggesting that the blinking would be enough of a cue for an active buffer? > Of course, the blinking will make a very visible difference for the > default settings. So our worry is just for people who have tampered > with the defaults. the blink of the border is a distinct cue. i still think the absence of the solid cursor is misleading, in this case. to put it in an affirmative sense, the presence of the solid cursor would be more clear. > His proposal to use transparency is not really useful except for > special cases since > a) images are not always the size of his small icons, and so could be > vastly more obnoxious when blinking i understand that icons are often large, so that a solid cursor would be distracting and garish, doubly so with blinking. > b) images don't all have transparency. i think it's reasonable in those cases to not expect the cursor to show through. that said, i wouldn't mind having a display option for the images to xor the image colors, or something like that, when the cursor is on them. > Different ways to do this: > > a) offer to make the cursor border on selected frames thicker > > b) offer to use a different cursor color for selected frames i suppose both of those would work. from seeing the effect of the solid cursor showing through in emacs 21, my impression is that it's the most natural - consistent and clear - signal, in cases like my character-sized icons, where it is suitable. as i think i suggested in a previous message, the solution i would prefer would be to have some way to qualify icons so that they get a solid cursor in their transparent areas, and the default would be to have it inactive. eg, a qualifier for xpm, png, gif, and other transparent-capable images, like :solid-cursor: `:solid-cursor-shows BOOLEAN' When true, the cursor will appear solid through the transparent regions of the image when the cursor is situated on the image and the window is active. The default is for only the cursor border to show, whether or not the window is active. by having the default be off, then the disruption of oversize blinking icons will be avoided. i am hardly acquainted with display system, so don't know whether this is doable without undue effort. xor for non-transparent icons (and transparent ones, for that matter) could be a related option, if it were doable. -- ken ken.manheimer@gmail.com http://myriadicity.net