From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Ken Manheimer" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: gpg-agent support removed?! Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:40:36 -0400 Message-ID: <2cd46e7f0604101540j388d263ev45bd3b269bef6c4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <2cd46e7f0510031250u66ea1349yb437d539ce4027ef@mail.gmail.com> <873bgo4d0e.fsf@pacem.orebokech.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1144708921 6104 80.91.229.2 (10 Apr 2006 22:42:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:42:01 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, Reiner Steib , wilde@sha-bang.de, Romain Francoise , emacs-devel@gnu.org, jas@extundo.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 11 00:41:58 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FT550-0008FX-Ni for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2006 00:41:55 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FT550-0008Uh-8q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:41:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FT53n-0007N0-0k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:40:39 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FT53m-0007MY-8l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:40:38 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FT53m-0007MS-0P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:40:38 -0400 Original-Received: from [64.233.182.191] (helo=nproxy.gmail.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1FT58V-00007f-6Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:45:31 -0400 Original-Received: by nproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id h2so767428nfe for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:40:36 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=Wi/i7CAHBgpSSgXEhCZ0AAAyNg3q+mL0IHNgWQV8XtFMfo2uE0dRIEpwnE46NFO0DJUf2qLroj2WZBTMQtRle1AgRVmvvkKn/ALIZdYuBwC96BPjW9kfNjcvpLULozGZVys7XqiN2fZNLdoFbkzXtZC3MEaAgYqAitb+N/vlNOw= Original-Received: by 10.48.221.15 with SMTP id t15mr826002nfg; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.49.51.17 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:40:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-To: "Daiki Ueno" In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:52626 Archived-At: daiki, i still have some problems with your patch, and the changes you're suggesting for allout, and i think you've oversimplified the problems allout has having with your patches. details interspersed with the cited text. On 4/8/06, Daiki Ueno wrote: > >>>>> In <873bgo4d0e.fsf@pacem.orebokech.com> > >>>>> Romain Francoise wrote: > > Richard Stallman writes: > > > > Romain, would you please explain to me why you removed the code in > > > Emacs CVS? > > > To keep it level with the same code in Gnus, which we planned to includ= e > > in a new Gnus stable release this week-end. > > > > Why not install Daiki's fixes instead? > > > Because they weren't available at the time, > > As I said yesterday, the current version is at > http://www.unixuser.org/~ueno/pgg-20060407.tar.gz > This code should be fairly stable. > > > and because we had agreed to test this new code in the Gnus trunk. > > I agreeded to revert the code from v5-10 branch of Gnus because the > release of Gnus v5.10.8 is so imminent. However, I didn't think the > release of Emacs is as well. > > > Anyway, Reiner has now changed it again in Gnus and Emacs to a later > > version that satisfies everyone, I think (revision 1.8 vs. 1.4). > > No, I wasn't satisfied with your decision at all. Though allout.el > appearantly has a bug, i.e. allout.el uses PGG in a bad way, it works as you characterized it that way because allout uses some internal pgg functions. that was not complete, nor did your suggested remedy solve that problem, though it would allow the removal of those functions from pgg-gpg. first, your initial patch crippled allout's passphrase provisions because the pgg-gpg functions which took an optional passphrase argument were not respecting it. i mentioned that, and you seem to have fixed it - that problem no longer exists with your more recent patch. that's very important to allout's encryption operations, and i'm glad it's resolved - thanks! second, you suggest fixing some of the cases where allout uses internal functions by having allout implement its own version of those functions, allowing you to eliminate the versions of those functions in pgg-gpg. that mostly works, but it amounts to allout's versions of those functions depending on internal data structures in pgg-gpg, leading to a yet more brittle situation than depending on internal functions. i think a better fix would be to provide the functionality, or some equivalent, at the generic pgg level. i did not do so because i had limited time and no access to the other backends, in order to establish that the functionality would be available with them. it also so happens that there is at least one other function from pgg-gpg which allout depends on and which is missing from your revised pgg-gpg: `pgg-gpg-lookup-all-secret-keys'. this one calls out to pgg, and so does not even remotely belong in allout. perhaps it was renamed or the functionality is available in another way, and i'm not opposed to tracking that, but i cannot do so immediately, and would need time and justification to do so. > expected by Ken (the author of allout.el), so it won't be fixed. On the now i'm confused. what gave you the idea that it won't be fixed? i never said i wouldn't consider what you suggested, and in fact have been planning to do so but haven't had the time until now. i think the approach is flawed, for the reason i mentioned above, but you may be able to convince me otherwise - i'm willing to talk about it. > other hand, I have many enhancement plans of PGG based on the new code > such as keysigning features, string-based interface, etc. I think it > should be tested not only by the Gnus people but also by Emacs people. i think pgg could stand some attention, and am glad you're willing to do so. the thing is, taking it may require some consolidation before extending it - it has grown a bit unordered, and probably needs some attention to rationalizing it against existing consumer's requirements, including those of allout. for now, i have a branch version of allout that does as you suggested and works partly against your pgg-20060407.tar.gz patch, except that key-pair encryption fails for lack of pgg-gpg-lookup-all-secret-keys, as mentioned above. i am going to be going away for a week, starting tomorrow evening, so i'm hoping that there will not be a migration to your new version until this is resolved. i ultimately would prefer that the problems be resolved in a better way, along the lines mentioned above, but am willing to go with a partial solution if some provision for its stability can be made. i do want to see pgg continue to ripen. -- ken manheimer ken.manheimer@gmail.com http://myriadicity.net