From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: MarkWills Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: How to improve the readability of (any) LISP or any highlevel functional language to the level of FORTH ? Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 02:48:39 -0800 (PST) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <2a7ba258-1bf4-49cb-b7aa-6e2544e509f9@g25g2000yqn.googlegroups.com> References: <80ceeca0-1d32-47d1-ba96-feb4d9729c3a@v17g2000yqv.googlegroups.com> <4d2076b1$0$23762$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <83fc50d0-1410-47e0-9d72-ae087a6d0db3@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1294070761 27137 80.91.229.12 (3 Jan 2011 16:06:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 16:06:01 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 03 17:05:58 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PZmuy-0000rI-SF for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 17:05:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57430 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PZmuu-00074B-QY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:05:52 -0500 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!g25g2000yqn.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: comp.lang.functional, comp.lang.lisp, gnu.emacs.help, comp.lang.forth, comp.lang.prolog Original-Lines: 73 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.39.88.71 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1294051719 24839 127.0.0.1 (3 Jan 2011 10:48:39 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2011 10:48:39 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: g25g2000yqn.googlegroups.com; posting-host=217.39.88.71; posting-account=-Z7-HwoAAAAWOrLQDWUcFYPD8_KiaWMt User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101123 SeaMonkey/2.0.11,gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu comp.lang.functional:69087 comp.lang.lisp:297170 gnu.emacs.help:183896 comp.lang.forth:160280 comp.lang.prolog:44021 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 03 Jan 2011 11:02:47 -0500 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:78115 Archived-At: On Jan 2, 7:14=A0pm, w_a_x_man wrote: > On Jan 2, 6:59=A0am, Doug Hoffman wrote: > > > > > On 1/1/11 2:04 AM, girosenth wrote: > > > > How to improve the readability of (any) LISP or any highlevel > > > functional language to the level of FORTH ? > > > > There are many people who have trivia complaints about parens in lisp= , > > > but I dont. > > > > LISP is a prefix notation. > > > > sequence of operations would look like this on operands (ops) : > > > > (f ops (g ops (h ops (j ops (k ops (l ops ))...)))) > > > > How do you make it readable ? > > > How do you home to the center or centers ? > > > > (f (g (h (j (k (l ops)))...))) > > > > is easy to read or > > > > ops l k j h g f > > > [snip] > > > > Is there a postfix functional language that also gets rid of parens > > > and is not as primitive as FORTH or POSTSCRIPT ? > > > Forth remains only as primitive as you want it to be. > > That is equally true of assembly language. > > Forth is a low-level language used primarily for programming embedded > applications such as controlling the flushing of a toilet. > > "Forth, the toilet-flusher!" Er, no. Forth has been/is used for: * Controlling radio telescopes * Performing the data acquisition on radio telescopes * Cargo bay loading system on space shuttle * Controlling CNC machines in metal finishing * Controlling DC rectifiers in metal finishing * Dosing controllers in metal finishing * Anodising controllers in metal finishing * Distributed control system in factories * Airport management * Rain gauge data acquisition in environmental applications * Flow meter monitoring (data acquisition) and reporting in water/ sewage applications * Subsea data acquisition and control (in progress) * Real-time telemetry in Formula 1 cars (still ongoing) * Initialising PC mother boards all over the world * OLPC laptop Note that, contrary to your bizarre assertion, I personally know of no instance where a Forth system has been used to flush a toilet. It would be a bit over the top, since a 555 timer and a relay would do the job quite nicely, as we used to do in the 80's with that exact application, and similarly with industrial washer detergent dosing systems. I know you're a troll and I shouldn't 'feed you' but Forth is still used, and is still a valuable programming language.