* clutter integration in the xwidget branch @ 2011-06-28 7:05 joakim 2011-06-28 8:03 ` Antoine Levitt 2011-06-28 8:49 ` Julien Danjou 0 siblings, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: joakim @ 2011-06-28 7:05 UTC (permalink / raw To: emacs-devel I did a preliminary "hello world" type xwidget using clutter-gtk. Information about clutter: http://www.clutter-project.org/ My example just loads a hard coded svg file into a clutter canvas inside emacs. This happens through librsvg->cairo->clutter-gtk. The example is much speedier than our current svg support, but can be optimised more still. So what's missing to get an animated GPU accelerated Gnu herd jumping about in Emacs? - research how to implement MVC with Clutter - research proper lisp bindings for Clutter. (so you need to read and respond to my other thread. You guys spend too much time trolling about mail setting and too little on my important threads :) Possibly one could benefit from Guile Clutter? -- Joakim Verona ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: clutter integration in the xwidget branch 2011-06-28 7:05 clutter integration in the xwidget branch joakim @ 2011-06-28 8:03 ` Antoine Levitt 2011-06-28 8:49 ` Julien Danjou 1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Antoine Levitt @ 2011-06-28 8:03 UTC (permalink / raw To: emacs-devel 28/06/11 09:05, joakim@verona.se > I did a preliminary "hello world" type xwidget using clutter-gtk. > > Information about clutter: > http://www.clutter-project.org/ > > My example just loads a hard coded svg file into a clutter canvas inside > emacs. This happens through librsvg->cairo->clutter-gtk. The example is > much speedier than our current svg support, but can be optimised more > still. > > So what's missing to get an animated GPU accelerated Gnu herd jumping about in Emacs? > > - research how to implement MVC with Clutter > > - research proper lisp bindings for Clutter. (so you need to read and > respond to my other thread. You guys spend too much time trolling about > mail setting and too little on my important threads :) Possibly one > could benefit from Guile Clutter? FWIW, I (and probably others) am very interested in your work, and am looking forward to the day I can run mplayer/chrome/a pdf viewer from the comfort of my emacs. I just don't answer for lack of knowledge :) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: clutter integration in the xwidget branch 2011-06-28 7:05 clutter integration in the xwidget branch joakim 2011-06-28 8:03 ` Antoine Levitt @ 2011-06-28 8:49 ` Julien Danjou 2011-06-28 9:45 ` chad 2011-06-28 15:52 ` Miles Bader 1 sibling, 2 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Julien Danjou @ 2011-06-28 8:49 UTC (permalink / raw To: joakim; +Cc: emacs-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2476 bytes --] On Tue, Jun 28 2011, joakim@verona.se wrote: > Information about clutter: > http://www.clutter-project.org/ > > My example just loads a hard coded svg file into a clutter canvas inside > emacs. This happens through librsvg->cairo->clutter-gtk. The example is > much speedier than our current svg support, but can be optimised more > still. > > So what's missing to get an animated GPU accelerated Gnu herd jumping about in Emacs? > > - research how to implement MVC with Clutter > > - research proper lisp bindings for Clutter. (so you need to read and > respond to my other thread. You guys spend too much time trolling about > mail setting and too little on my important threads :) Possibly one > could benefit from Guile Clutter? On Tue, Jun 28 2011, Antoine Levitt wrote: > FWIW, I (and probably others) am very interested in your work, and am > looking forward to the day I can run mplayer/chrome/a pdf viewer from > the comfort of my emacs. I just don't answer for lack of knowledge :) I am too very interested in the work done in that direction. I understand that the finality is to control application in Emacs, for an obvious win to us, Emacs users. However, I'm not sure the xembed approach is relevant anymore, nowadays. I don't think it will work on long term. Many application can't be embeded, or won't work correctly when they will be. Thinking that you will be able to control them from Emacs, is naive, unless they have been though that way¹. Thinking that upstream will fix or enhance their apps to be embeded, is naive too. So here the question I wonder for days now and I need to ask out loud: Why not embed WebKit as a display engine? I think Emacs would win on every side. The current Emacs display engine is very limited (to be not rude). With such an engine, Emacs could display image *properly* (with real position, in text flow, or floating). It could play videos. It could have widgets that 1988 will be jealous about. It could even display HTML correctly, something that is needed everywhere nowadays, like in Gnus (see shr.el). The only downside I see so far is the inability for the terminal based engine to match such technical requirements offered by WebKit. I don't have a solution for this, but would hate that it'd be the thing keeping Emacs to a so low standard about its display engines. ¹ I'm thinking about uzbl. -- Julien Danjou ❱ http://julien.danjou.info [-- Attachment #2: Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 835 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: clutter integration in the xwidget branch 2011-06-28 8:49 ` Julien Danjou @ 2011-06-28 9:45 ` chad 2011-06-28 15:52 ` Miles Bader 1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: chad @ 2011-06-28 9:45 UTC (permalink / raw To: Julien Danjou; +Cc: joakim, emacs-devel [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 740 bytes --] On Jun 28, 2011, at 1:49 AM, Julien Danjou wrote: > > So here the question I wonder for days now and I need to ask out loud: > > Why not embed WebKit as a display engine? It would probably be a large amount of difficult work. Over the years, multiple groups have tried this approach using less complicated versions of the web (pre-javascript, pre-css, pre-xhtml, etc) and less complicated editing systems (more `notepad' than `emacs'), and have fallen under their own weight. I hate to be gloomy, but I'm pretty sure that's the reason. Someday, another epoch or Gerd Moellmann-style effort will arise and implement this idea or something like it, but, believe it or not, xembed is probably an easier path. Hope that helps, *Chad [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1205 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
* Re: clutter integration in the xwidget branch 2011-06-28 8:49 ` Julien Danjou 2011-06-28 9:45 ` chad @ 2011-06-28 15:52 ` Miles Bader 1 sibling, 0 replies; 5+ messages in thread From: Miles Bader @ 2011-06-28 15:52 UTC (permalink / raw To: joakim; +Cc: emacs-devel Julien Danjou <julien@danjou.info> writes: > Why not embed WebKit as a display engine? As chad said, it would likely be pretty difficult. Emacs is not a simple text editor with generic requirements for redisplay that can easily be fulfilled by random toolkit text widgets. Emacs redisplay implements many specialized features which are used by lots of lisp code. All that would either have to be emulated (how?) or abandoned. Moreover, the traditional web-browser method of display -- calculating a DOM from the underlying document, and then letting the engine display the DOM efficiently -- is not a particularly good match with the traditional Emacs display architecture, which mostly only incurs overhead for _displayed_ portions of the text. A big change in models like that would very likely to have some big repercussions.[*] The existing terminal display code of course can't support many features of the graphical display, but it still shares much of the same code, and respects the same basic constraints. This has been suggested many times before in various forms, and I'm not aware that there's ever been a very positive answer. [*] Visit a 500MB document in Emacs? No prob, displays quickly! Open the same document in Google Chrome [a speed-focused browser which uses webkit]? System brought to knees, I had to kill it after my system started thrashing itself to death. -Miles -- Is it true that nothing can be known? If so how do we know this? -Woody Allen ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 5+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-06-28 15:52 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 5+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2011-06-28 7:05 clutter integration in the xwidget branch joakim 2011-06-28 8:03 ` Antoine Levitt 2011-06-28 8:49 ` Julien Danjou 2011-06-28 9:45 ` chad 2011-06-28 15:52 ` Miles Bader
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git This is an external index of several public inboxes, see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror all data and code used by this external index.