From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Oop customization group Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 20:32:26 -0700 Message-ID: <2ADA2594AEBC491B83F4A0C5329C4ECD@us.oracle.com> References: <93AA5CFC-247B-4DD7-9E4E-168F8D6DB7D4@gmail.com><129D9AC44DD94AFCB28C267A28E19785@us.oracle.com> <87my8kgasb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1244345569 18318 80.91.229.12 (7 Jun 2009 03:32:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 03:32:49 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'David Reitter' , 'Emacs-Devel devel' To: "'Stephen J. Turnbull'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 07 05:32:46 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MD97k-0006CC-8L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 05:32:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45167 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MD97j-0005yl-Dr for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:32:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MD97e-0005yg-NP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:32:38 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MD97Z-0005yU-Ba for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:32:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=47932 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MD97Z-0005yR-3p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:32:33 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet11.oracle.com ([141.146.126.233]:53430) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MD97Y-0002t3-Jg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:32:32 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by acsinet11.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n573XFEg031058 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 7 Jun 2009 03:33:16 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt002.oracle.com (abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.3.1/Switch-3.3.1) with ESMTP id n573XTpA016866; Sun, 7 Jun 2009 03:33:30 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/24.5.184.4) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 06 Jun 2009 20:32:25 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5579 Thread-Index: AcnnBMD11/kay/bnSOSEwooJF0xGzwAFTCew In-Reply-To: <87my8kgasb.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-Source-IP: abhmt002.oracle.com [141.146.116.11] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A010203.4A2B34CA.006C:SCFSTAT5015188,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 1) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111363 Archived-At: > > Group inheritance can be multiple. This is essentially a tagging > > mechanism (in the sense of del.icio.us tags, not Emacs tags), > > No, it's not, not until the UI reflects that. You seem to be in violent agreement. ;-) That was my point (in part). Groups are not really more than tags, because of multiple inheritance and because this "inheritance" is so loose that it is merely a kind of cross referencing ("see also") - you can even have group A that inherits from a group B that inherits from A. Groups are not more than tags in terms of their semantics, and they are less than tags when it comes to UI. As I suggested, and as you reiterate, the UI is not by design a tagging UI. That was my point in bringing this up: Since groups are nothing more than arbitrary labels/tags, should we not perhaps provide a UI that is more in line with the tagging and tag-searching UIs one sees today? > If we're going to go in the direction of d.i.u-style tagging, what I > think is needed is some way to communicate users' idea (ie, some sort > of consensus which may still be somewhat ambiguous or confused, not > coherent, well-thought-out individual systems) to the distribution. Locally, that could come naturally, I think, if the UI were more tag-like. Either on an individual basis or collectively among users at the same site, user tagging would be reflected in the resultant tag set ("group hierarchy"). Regardless of the UI, that is what happens now, when users define groups that other (local) users can see. But yes, it could be useful to somehow integrate tagging by the wider user community, so that it becomes part of Emacs, that is, part of a local Emacs installation or a local Emacs session. Given Internet access, the tag set available locally could dynamically (at least on demand) be made to reflect tagging by users at large. How best to do that, I don't know - I'm pretty ignorant about this stuff. Perhaps gnu.org could have a Web service that would federate user tagging, and which could be used to update one's local Emacs. That is, local tagging by users could be pushed out, and tags collected from non-local users could be pulled in.