From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: smtp crap Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:41:08 -0700 Message-ID: <292D655E-5979-4A75-89F3-58031CECA981@mit.edu> References: <8739f4kzp3.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87ipo0p1bc.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <58C87CB9F44943A7BBE78F2D6B62A850@us.oracle.com> <8762jwfjsj.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1244.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1318308079 31219 80.91.229.12 (11 Oct 2011 04:41:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 04:41:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs devel To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 11 06:41:15 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1RDU9S-0005u0-Mg for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 06:41:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40672 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDU9R-0005WD-Jm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:41:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:55964) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDU9P-0005W5-0J for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:41:11 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDU9N-0002Bw-PQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:41:10 -0400 Original-Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu ([18.9.25.14]:60661) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1RDU9M-0002BV-L4; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:41:08 -0400 X-AuditID: 1209190e-b7f4a6d0000008e5-d9-4e93c8e301e9 Original-Received: from mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu ( [18.7.62.39]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-3.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id DA.90.02277.3E8C39E4; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:41:07 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-4.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id p9B4f7WO031053; Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:41:07 -0400 Original-Received: from [10.0.1.4] (c-67-183-32-38.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [67.183.32.38]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as yandros@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id p9B4f4qC018723 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 11 Oct 2011 00:41:06 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1244.3) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrNIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixG6nrvv4xGQ/g80/TSweL3jCanFj1kIm ByaPtmlmAYxRXDYpqTmZZalF+nYJXBlLLz5gLtjGXvGsYyZzA+MX1i5GTg4JAROJf/e+skHY YhIX7q0Hsrk4hAT2MUr071nACOFsYJQ4P+EJWJWQwAkmif1tPF2MHBzCQB2Hu2RBTF4BY4nX /5hAKpgFdCR2br3DBhJmE5ABmqkBEuYUMJXY1DOJGcRmEVCVmHNsKSNEuarE+rc72SFsbYll C1+D1fAKWEmc67/CBHHBDCaJF+8/gN0sIiAvMWN+FzvEzfISi1s+M05gFJyFcMUsJFfMQjJ2 ASPzKkbZlNwq3dzEzJzi1GTd4uTEvLzUIl1jvdzMEr3UlNJNjKBw5ZTk28H49aDSIUYBDkYl Ht6N3ZP9hFgTy4orcw8xSnIwKYny7jwOFOJLyk+pzEgszogvKs1JLT7EKMHBrCTCmxUClONN SaysSi3Kh0lJc7AoifOu3uHgJySQnliSmp2aWpBaBJOV4eBQkuC1AcalkGBRanpqRVpmTglC momDE2Q4D9DwMJAa3uKCxNzizHSI/ClGXY6rNyacZBRiycvPS5US59UAKRIAKcoozYObA0sz rxjFgd4ShhjFA0xRcJNeAS1hAloyfcokkCUliQgpqQbGpVuPmu2rCGJas5VvX16Yg2sZ67kz 6/szzLNqpB70dof4hpfExhy7vMAnaselvTGsen+WbdjYdfrC8tO7d/pM5ElJm23y/pL0F0dp luWND82viR5XMXGwk18er31CNe3A5oKnLWzt7le2GLjlnX4jxnW+5+nHwv603R6n X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 18.9.25.14 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:144863 Archived-At: On Oct 10, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Miles Bader wrote: > So absent any data showing the new method would (or at least _might_) > improve things, isn't this change in behavior kind of dubious...? In one or two of the previous conversations on this topic, we talked about the cases where it does improve things: it is common for a machine to have a local sendmail (-doppelg=E4nger) that silently eats mail. I have personally seen (several years ago, at MIT) a large number of report-emacs-bug messages that ended up stranded on such a machine, and the user had no reasonable way of knowing that the message had not been sent (as far as they could tell, it *had* been sent). I have no idea how common this sort of configuration is today, but when we discussed it before, it seemed that at least 2 or 3 common, popular GNU/Linux distributions were likely to fall into this or similar problem configurations. I hope that helps, *Chad